Intro

[00:00:00] Michele: I had gotten to a point where I just couldn't go on. I was losing my mind. The battle was just too hard, and I really had tried everything that I knew how to do. I knew without help, I would have killed him or me. So I threw him out because in my mind, he was the problem.

[00:00:18] Spencer: Welcome to episode 460 of The Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Jeffrey and Bonnie. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you, Jeffrey and Bonnie, for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:32] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery

[00:00:49] Michele: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves rather than any 12-step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to your life

[00:01:09] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I'm your host today, and joining me today is Michele. Welcome back to the Recovery Show, Michele. You were here recently. We had a conversation about Tradition Two in episode 455, which I titled A Fellowship of Equals.

[00:01:24] Today, you're gonna share your life experience, strength, and hope with us. Thank you.

[00:01:29]

Michele's story

[00:01:29] Michele: I am. I have a reading from Hope for Today from June 4th. I was just at the Al-Anon convention this weekend. This reading I read while I was still on the beach, and it just struck me. This was actually the topic of one of our meetings at the convention, It's about wisdom.

[00:01:44] All of the Al-Anon tools I have learned and used have pointed me down the path to gaining wisdom. For me, wisdom means knowing when to stop and listen to myself and to my higher power rather than rushing into a decision or action. I used to think I always had to do something, and that waiting was a waste of time. Now I know God speaks to me while I'm waiting.

[00:02:06] Wisdom means being patient with myself and others. I used to blame myself for everything. Now I can practice the slogan, think. Maybe I don't need to be responsible for this situation. Maybe this other person doesn't need to be responsible for it either. Maybe we are all doing the best we can with what we know right now.

[00:02:25] Wisdom means knowing I can't live life in isolation. I need others. I need the love of other humans who make mistakes, understand my being human, and still love me. I also need the love and guidance of the God who created me. He is always with me, and when I call on Him, He will answer.

[00:02:45] Wisdom means learning to mine the diamonds hidden in my problems. I used to waste precious time being depressed about how alone and unloved I was. I was blind to everything beautiful around me, and ungrateful for my blessings. Now, when life hands me rocks, I use the program to polish them into valuable gems.

[00:03:05] Thought for the day: Wisdom is the fruit of working the Al-Anon program. And the quote from Courage to Be Me: “When we ask for wisdom, we are asking God to share special knowledge with us.”

[00:03:18] And that was just so precious to me because I really feel like I'm living the program. I've learned a lot of wisdom, but I learned it all in these rooms. So I will share my story with you.

[00:03:29] My name is Michele, and I'm very grateful recovering member of the Worldwide Fellowship of Al-Anon, and I'm so grateful and humbled to share my story with you. I believe we tell what it was like so that perhaps people who are fairly new to our program can see how Al-Anon really works. And I was just at a meeting this morning, and there was a newcomer there, so they are the most important person in the room.

[00:03:50] I heard something at a meeting that I might have heard before, but it really hit me as being so true, and it's so simple. This is one of the reasons I keep coming back. I always hear new pearls of wisdom, and that never gets old.

[00:04:02] She said, “I came here looking for help, and I found it.” And it was just that. Wow! When I got here, I was crazy, really crazy from trying the same thing over and over again to fix me and everyone around me, and it never worked.

[00:04:19] I remember sitting on a roof, literally, looking out over the city and wondering what the heck was I going to do? I had no clue. So 41 years ago, on March 27th, I found my way into these hallowed rooms and found the help that I was looking for. I found the wisdom that had been planted here by all the people who came before me because that's how it works. We share our experience, strength, and hope with one another to heal our pain, to heal our very souls, and it works if you work it.

[00:04:51] I'm gonna tell you what it was like, what happened, and what it's like today because that's the direction we get when we share our stories. I started by just reading my story as it was saved on my computer from three years ago, and that just didn't feel right. My story hasn't changed, but I have. My past hasn't changed, but maybe the way I see it or talk about it has.

[00:05:11] I was the youngest of three. I have two older brothers, and my father was the alcoholic. My mother became crazy dealing with his alcoholism. We lived with my grandparents, and I interject this here because it's just– I have a five-year-old granddaughter, so when I think of me as five years old, this just stuck out 'cause I don't have a lot of memories of when I was a child.

[00:05:32] I was five. My grandfather, who was a raging alcoholic, died. What I remember is that I was happy to get that news. I have no other memory of him except that I know he was a mean, old, alcoholic man. I remember them bringing him down the steps on a chair and taking him out into the ambulance, and I remember, I actually remember it like I answered the phone, when the hospital called and they told me that he died, and I smiled. Now, I don't have any memories of him being a raging alcoholic, but I know that he was.

[00:06:05] I liked playing outside with friends even before the age of five. I have fond memories of two friends and their families who treated me with love and kindness. I don't remember being treated like that at home. I wanna say that I believe my parents did the best they could, that they in fact did love me the best that they knew how.

[00:06:23] But I think you intuitively know something's wrong. You just don't know what it is, and I think my little psyche began to think there was something wrong with me. That's what I remember. I remember thinking, “What's wrong with me? Doesn't anybody love me?”

[00:06:37] My little brother was my grandmother's favorite 'cause she still lived with us, and my older brother was my mother's favorite. Of course, my little heart thought, “What about me?” Love gets twisted by the disease of alcoholism, twisted in manipulation, cruelty, abandonment, and neglect. I think neglect is the first and foremost feeling that comes when I think of myself as a little girl. Yes, I had food, shelter, and clothing. Yes, I had a bed to sleep in, and I went to school every day. But little humans need so much more than the essentials of life.

[00:07:09] I'm so aware of that fact because I have been very much a part of my last three grandchildren's lives because I'm retired. So I have helped to care for them, and it is the greatest gift. I get to experience their young lives and get to love them freely and fully, as I wish I had been. It's very healing.

[00:07:29] So my father's alcoholism progressed as my life progressed. As a little girl, I remember him and my mother going out dancing. I loved watching her get dressed to go out dancing. We also used to be taken to a social club. We played games, and they drank. There was a cook, Betty, who I really liked. Today I know that's because she paid attention to me, and that was rare. As I think of that today, I don't know how we didn't die in a car crash, because my father was one of those who drank till he was so drunk he'd be under the table, and my mother didn't drive. But I guess our higher power got behind the wheel because it wasn't our time to die.

[00:08:06] As I got older, my father's disease progressed. So did mine. One good thing was that I found that I was very smart, and I got mostly As in school. That was one thing that made me feel good about myself. And as I'll explain later in my story, that's why I was able to believe maybe I could get a college degree.

[00:08:24] I also remember when I was a teenager and started filling out, boys started to notice me. That felt good. Any attention was good I had a few very unhealthy relationships as a result of that attention, and they were all abusive, verbally and physically. And I have to say, you know, I'm not blaming them. I'm saying that's how little I felt of myself to tolerate it.

[00:08:49] I had absolutely no parental guidance about sex, boys, or anything else about growing up, so I was basically on my own. When you don't get attention from your parents, you look for it in all the wrong places. So when I was 19, I met the father of my children, and we fell deeply in love. He was a cross-addicted drug addict alcoholic, and I was a very sick Al-Anon. This is where you say you don't know what you don't know.

[00:09:14] Dennis and I, that was his name, was so much in love, but we didn't stand a chance because of our broken and shattered pasts, and his disease of addiction and my brokenness growing up in an alcoholic home just didn't allow us to have a good life. Neither one of us received what we needed from our parents. They didn't have it to give. Neither one of us knew what love should look like.

[00:09:36] I was pregnant one year later because he threw my birth controls away. I remember thinking, “What are my choices?” I could stay at home in this crazy place. My uncle, who lived a few blocks away, had an apartment that I could live in, but being alone was definitely not something that was attractive to me, so I got married.

[00:09:54] We had discussed having many children. In the first five years of my marriage, I had four kids. I remember always loving babies growing up. I still do. I think it's because they're so innocent. They haven't been affected by this disease. They have a clean slate. They're so beautiful. I remember being so elated when they were born and wanting to share that with their dad, and he couldn't wait to get to the bar and smoke cigars and celebrate with alcohol.

[00:10:21] This was supposed to be a happy time filled with the joy of a new baby, new life, new beginnings. Instead, because our lives were riddled with this disease, I was filled with heartache, pain, and so much confusion. Again, I thought, “What's wrong with me? Why aren't we enough?”

[00:10:39] I believe he was really scared, like, “Holy shit, I'm a dad. What now?” His dad wasn't very nice to him, but I didn't think that back then. Then I just felt so lost and alone. So year after year till I was 25, we had four beautiful, wonderful children. Crazy, right? Very.

[00:10:59] I did the best I could to love them. I remember, I didn't have a clue about parenting because my parents really didn't parent, so I ended up buying parenting magazines and Dr. Spock to learn how to be a parent, because I knew that I didn't have a clue. And I wanted to be different. I also longed for a partner to help me with them. My mother helped as much as she could.

[00:11:19] Dennis did support us very well financially. I remember years later, a woman in Al-Anon told me that I should appreciate that, that not everyone had the luxury of having the bills paid.

[00:11:30] Our lives were filled with violence, fighting, and emotional and verbal abuse. As a result, I went home to my family many times during those years. There were never any questions asked, no emotional support, but I had a quiet place to sleep, and meals prepared for us, and help with the children. That gave me some rest and peace.

[00:11:51] I always went back because the home I went to might have been a little safer, but it was filled with sick people. So there was really no safe place for me to go in my mind. I remember thinking, “How can he treat me like this? I thought he loved me.” He didn't know how. He did the best he could. He was in a stupor most of the time.

[00:12:11] I just didn't understand. Here it was happening all over again. Like it was growing up, the person who was supposed to love and take care of me was not only not doing that, but he was hurting me, deeply, to my very core. I thought when I found someone who loved me, I was hopeful, happy. So with every hurtful word, every disappointment, every slap, that hope and happiness were whittled away.

[00:12:39] When I talk about the hole I was trying to fill, I have to say the hope and joy that loving Dennis brought me was just as big. I still hoped for the man that loved me to return. I've learned in Al-Anon that our disease wants to believe the lies, the promises, because it helps relieve our pain. When you love an addict, that's your life.

[00:12:59] When I think about it today, I don't know how we all survived those times, but we did. So I thought, “I'm gonna be a better wife and a better mother, and things will change, and he'll love me enough to give up his drugs and alcohol.” It sounded simple to me. Like I did as a child, I felt lost and alone, and I didn't know what to do.

[00:13:19] But growing up in an alcoholic home, I was very resilient, very strong-willed, very self-confident, so I became a very good martyr. My husband was a very, very, very, very, very hard worker. He supported us so I could stay home with the kids. I believe he loved me with all his heart, as I believe he loved our children. But we didn't know what we were doing. Nobody ever taught us anything about love, about marriage. This is a family generational disease, so we struggled.

[00:13:51] I had gotten to a point where I just couldn't go on. I was losing my mind. The battle was just too hard, and I really had tried everything that I knew how to do. I knew without help, I would have killed him or me. So I threw him out because in my mind, he was the problem. He was the alcoholic, and I knew what it was like growing up in an alcoholic home. And all I remembered was the powerlessness, and pain, and anger I felt as a child, and I was not going to put my children through that one moment more.

[00:14:23] That's what got me here, and I am forever grateful. I threw him out because, you know, it was all his problem. At least that's what I thought back then. I did know where to go because when I was about 22, my father went into the Caron Foundation, which is a rehab in this area, and I attended the family program with my mother, and also went to my first Al-Anon meeting. I left and looked at my mother and said, ” They were a bunch of selfish bitches.”

[00:14:48] But 10 years later, when I had done everything that I thought humanly possible, I knew where to go, and I went, and my life was changed forever.

[00:14:57] I have to tell you that I chaired my first meeting. That says it all about who I was. I went in, I sat down, I looked at my watch. It was 8:00 o'clock. They hadn't started. There was a book in front of me, and I started reading. I always say I don't know what I did when I came to the Newcomers Welcome.

[00:15:15] I do know that during that first meeting, I felt like I was home. It's really hard for me to remember the hell that I lived in, but that's why I'm here, because I was there. What I do remember is that there were many women there who were smiling, shaking their heads when I spoke, and when everybody else spoke, everyone listened attentively. It's like we have a different language here. We understand each other, and that's the beauty of it.

[00:15:40] They were talking about love, peace, kindness, forgiveness, sanity, serenity, and acceptance. They were words to me, but I didn't know anything about them. They also told me to keep coming back, and I remember going home and saying, “They want me to go back.” That made me very happy, and so I did.

[00:16:01] But back to Dennis. I threw him out, and he moved in with his mom, which was very short distance from where we lived. At some point, he called me and said he quit drinking. Can he come home? Now, we were married for 12 years at that point, and I probably heard him say he quit drinking 1,000 times up until that point. And so I didn't believe him, and I said no, he couldn't. He probably asked me many times, and I kept saying no, and I really can't tell you why this time was different than all the rest.

[00:16:28] Eventually, he went to the rehab and got sober. Now, you would think this is a dream come true for me. My husband's getting sober, and that's gonna solve all our problems. But I was pissed. Okay, some are sicker than others. Here I am at home with four kids, and he's off on vacation for 30 days. So I got a babysitter and went to 30 Al-Anon meetings.

[00:16:53] I thought, “I'll spite him.” Anyway, it was good for me. But yeah, that's how I felt at the time. I don't remember much about those meetings except that they were a lot larger back then, usually about 60 people. So we would split into three different groups, and everyone was very loving and kind.

[00:17:10] And I could feel that they all really wanted to help me. They didn't want to help me get Dennis sober. They really wanted to help me, just me. When I hear those words, they just wanted to help me, it just warms my heart. As I've been thinking about what I'm gonna say and writing this story, I remember how painful it was growing up not feeling loved. And then being married and not feeling loved. When I got to these rooms, I felt that warmth and kindness that I had not felt anywhere else ever, and it felt good.

[00:17:45] After attending Al-Anon for a while, they kept asking me questions like what do I like? What's my favorite color? What's my favorite food? I had no idea. So I learned a lot about myself because you told me I was important enough to know. This program is about focusing on ourselves. I remember having to relearn everything, mostly how I spoke to him. So if I was upset about something, I would call my sponsor. We actually would write down what I wanted to say on a note card so I wouldn't lose my focus. That was my beginning on how to learn how to communicate in a healthy way.

[00:18:16] I have learned so much more since then, like say what you mean, mean what you say. I did know how to do that, but I had to learn how not to say it mean. I examine my motives before I speak and before I text. That helps. I've erased a lot of texts that just didn't matter, that served no purpose.

[00:18:34] We had another son one year later after our pink cloud period. I was learning to take care of myself, so I asked my sponsor to attend childbirth classes with us, and she was also at his birth. After I had Bubba, that was our fifth, and that was his nickname, I decided that at this point I wanted to go to college because I didn't get to do that right out of high school. I had four kids. Because the women in Al-Anon encouraged and supported me to follow my dream. First, they helped me discover my dream. So I went to my husband, and he said he supported my dream, too. I remember going to enroll in college, and I felt like the women from my meetings were holding my hand because I was terrified, but I did it. I graduated and eventually ended up in a career I loved. I'm a retired high school biology teacher.

[00:19:21] Besides my divorce, going to college with five kids at home was the hardest thing I ever did. There were many struggles, but with the help of the supportive men and women in Al-Anon, I made it and graduated cum laude from Albright College the same year my oldest daughter graduated from high school.

[00:19:38] I want to interject a story about my father and me. My parents watched Bubba half the time when I was in college. And then he was in daycare the other half of the time when I was in school. At some point, my older son, Jared, was recruited by The Hill School. It's a very prestigious private school in Pottstown. So he left Southern Junior High School, which was the local public school, to attend. It was quite an honor for our family because they actually paid for him to go there.

[00:20:06] We had to go to parent-teachers' night. I had no idea what that was about. I had no idea how long it was gonna take, but my parents were watching Bubba, and we didn't get home till 11:15 PM. My father was drunk and really pissed off at me. So he started talking about how I took advantage of them, so he ripped me up one side and down the other in front of my two-year-old. I looked at my mother and said, “I grew up with this, and he's not going to, and we won't be back.” And I enrolled Bubba in full-time daycare at Reading Area Community College, which is where I was.

[00:20:41] One week later, my father came to my home. He was very nervous. Today I think maybe he was having DTs, and apologized and solemnly swore never to drink again, if only they could watch Bubba again. And he never picked up another drink. So I got to see what my dad would've been like had he been sober, and it was a beautiful thing.

[00:21:04] He died two years later from cancer, but I'm so grateful for that time. I got to see my father as he could have been for me growing up without alcohol. It was very healing for me to observe him with my son. He was so tender, and loving and kind.

[00:21:21] Even though drugs and alcohol were not a part of our lives anymore, all of the effects of the disease were. There was still fighting, manipulation, angry words, name-calling. There was no tenderness. So 13 years after I came into Al-Anon, we divorced. That's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. It was painful, gut-wrenching painful, and I knew I had to get out.

[00:21:43] People in Al-Anon don't tell you what to do, and trust me, I asked, “How you know? When will I know? Will I ever know?” And I can say with conviction today that when it was time, I knew. I felt like I was dying, and I didn't wanna die. Al-Anon taught me that I was special, I was important. So we separated and divorced, and our family suffered, all of us Divorce is ugly. This disease robbed us of a happy ending together.

[00:22:12] I was told when going through this to let my children know that I was divorcing their father and not them, and to keep them out of it. They didn't understand, and a few of them really blamed me for everything. In time, my children forgave me. I forgave him. If you stick around long enough, healing does come.

[00:22:30] Eventually, he got cancer and died. He got a second chance at healing with his relationships with our children. While the first doctor gave him six weeks to live, he lived for five and a half years, and I believe a lot of healing happened in those years for my whole family. Our higher power knows what he's doing.

[00:22:51] So I have to say, this next section, I've told my story many times, and I didn't include these 15 years of my life. So I just, right before we came on, I filled it in. It took four years to divorce, and I found someone to help fill that period of God-awful pain. When the divorce was over, so was that relationship.

[00:23:12] Then I was single for the first time ever, and I took full advantage of it. I went out dancing four nights a week and dated a lot of different men, something I think most people do in college, but I was married and having babies. I enjoyed this for about three years, and decided I had kissed enough frogs and didn't want to spend the rest of my life alone. So I went on match.com and met Robert, my second husband, who looked like Prince Charming. He wasn't, but my picker was still broken. We were married for eight long years, had some good times, mostly not. And I remember in October of 2015, I went to him and said, “Okay, I'm done. I quit smoking, and I think we should get a divorce.” And he said, “Okay.”

[00:23:58] So that December he left, and I can remember before that, 'cause I was going to Al-Anon, I was grieving even before he left. At some point he said to me, “Michele, do you want me to stay?” ‘Cause I was weeping. I said, “Oh, hell no.” So,he left. That divorce took one year and 350 bucks. So I always say he was a terrible husband. He was a really good divorcee. So that was that.

[00:24:23] What it's like today. I go to a lot of meetings, as many as I can, to keep getting those pearls of wisdom. You know, I just came home from Jersey. I was there for 10 days, and I went to nine meetings. This weekend I went to the Al-Anon convention, and there were eight meetings there. Meetings are just an integral part of my life because I meet my people there. I read many books every morning, and I meditate. I have and use a sponsor, and I have a few close friends that I call when I've lost my peace. Usually right away because being at peace has become a way of life.

[00:24:56] My blatant character defects are judging and feeling either superior or inferior. So what do I do? I talk to God. A lot. He gives me many opportunities to observe myself doing the very things that I have judged others for. He lets me know I'm human all the time.

[00:25:13] One of the things that really helped me in the beginning, and continues to help me today, is knowing that there's a God and I'm not it. I felt such freedom when I first heard that. Also that everyone is given one life to live the way they see fit, not the way I think they should. So love means let others voluntarily evolve. I very rarely think I have anyone else's answers today, but before Al-Anon, I thought I had everyone else's answers. What a relief.

[00:25:45] I remember when I first worked the steps, I worked on step one, powerlessness, for a year. I was given direction to write in a notebook everything that came up that I was powerless over. Guess what? I found out I'm powerless over everything except my own behavior. And until I worked step four, I was powerless over that, too. When I heard step two, came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity, that's really what I came here to do, so that was a relief. All I had to do was make a decision to turn my will and my life over to his care.

[00:26:17] This didn't happen overnight. I can't say I fought it, just that old habits are hard to break. But going to meetings and hearing about these steps gave me something else that I had been searching for my whole life: Hope.

[00:26:30] The self-esteem I have today as a result of this program is not life esteem or love esteem or even sponsor esteem. It has to come from me, and the way to gain it is by performing esteemable acts. My self-esteem helps me feel good about myself.

[00:26:49] My relationship with my higher power is beautiful. We talk a lot. He lets me see his hand in my life now more than ever. I wake up every morning and expect joy. When I'm out in the world, I show kindness. I conduct myself like an adult. You see, I grew up in these rooms. Everything that I have in my life that's worthwhile, I learned in these rooms. There is magic here, and it all starts with love. We learn to listen here, and there's healing in the hearing. For 75 years, Al-Anon has been a beacon of hope, and I'm living proof of its lasting impact.

[00:27:24] Today, what is most amazing to me is that there are people who find me wise and want to know what I know. After thinking about how I grew up and about the pain I endured in my early marriage, I find that most amazing. It is incredible that by attending these meetings, by working the steps, and being loved by the people in these rooms, I have found an incredible life, and I live it.

[00:27:47] I find solace in the fact that I find peace that passes all understanding. And just when I think I understand that I know how it works, God lets me know that I don't. So I do the next right thing and have faith that God will let me know what that is.

[00:28:01] I'm humbled by the fact that someone thought my story was worth telling, and that all of you are listening. I can only hope that you all feel the love that I have for you. We are not alone. One of the messages that I got growing up was, “Who do you think you are?” Today I know. My name is Michele, and I'm a grateful recovering member of Al-Anon, and I am special. Thank you for listening, and thank you for always being there.

[00:28:28] Spencer: Thank you for sharing all that, Michele. That's quite a life you've had, isn't it?

[00:28:33] Michele: Yes, it really is amazing what has happened in the last 41 years.

Song 1

[00:28:39] Spencer: I asked you to pick some music. What's the first song that you picked?

[00:28:44] Michele: The first one is josh Groban, he's one of my favorite artists, and it's You Lift Me Up. I chose this song because it describes how I feel about my higher power. And some of the lyrics are, “When I'm down and, oh, my soul so weary. When troubles come and my heart burdened be. Then I am still and wait here in the silence till you come and sit a while with me. You raise me up so I can stand on mountains. You raise me up to walk on stormy seas. I am strong 'cause I am on your shoulders. You raise me up to more than I can be.”

[00:29:19]

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:29:27] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently? And since you were just talking a whole lot about your life in recovery, I will go ahead and, and talk a little bit about mine.This recent Sunday,at church we had what we call our bridging ceremony where, the central part of it is the high school seniors metaphorically walking a bridge from, youth to adulthood, in the congregation.

[00:30:01] The day before I had been at a picnic with a book group of members from my congregation. One of the members invited us all over to their house for a potluck picnic in the afternoon, and it was a beautiful day, great company, good conversation. I was talking to the host and he said, “I can't believe it was 18 years ago that you worked with my son.”

[00:30:26] Michele: Wow

[00:30:27] Spencer: And we, talked about it a little bit more, and, realized that his son graduated 14 years previously.

[00:30:33] So yeah, 18 years total. Then I realized… And this comes up to me occasionally like, “Oh my God, I've been doing this for a while now, working with these high school-aged kids,” you know? It totally is something that I would not be doing, if I did not have my recovery program and my recovery tools. I don't think I would be sane. Even not regarding the alcoholic or non-alcoholic situation that I might have been living in at that point. Spending even just, an hour and a half a week with teenagers, requires some internal serenity, at least for me. And you can probably speak to that too. You spent a lot more time in your career.

[00:31:20] During that service, I got up and delivered a little, I could call it a homily, I guess, about bridges and,crossing bridges can be scary and that sort of thing. I threw in a little bit of 12-step recovery, in that I said, “You know what? You're gonna come up to situations where you don't know what to do or you don't know how to do. And guess what? It's okay to ask for help. Look around you. Here you are in a room full of people who would like to help you if you ask them.”

[00:31:56] Michele: what a great gift you gave to them. What a great gift

[00:31:59] Spencer: And then at the end I went a little bit off script and I said, “And if you see me around here or you see me around town, say hi, 'cause I miss you.” I just feel like being able to do that and being able to be open and honest and authentic in that kind of situation . I almost cried a little. I started out, I'm standing up there in the pulpit? And I said, “Now I'm gonna try to get through this.” And I did get through it , but it was rough at a couple points I just would not be that person without,the time I spent in recovery. All of it, meetings, steps, sponsor, sponsorship, made me who I am now, which is a very different person than I was 20 some years ago when I came into program.

[00:32:55] That's my little sharing for this week.

[00:32:58] Do you wanna share something that came up for you recently that illustrates recovery in your life?

[00:33:03] Michele: I had a great time at the convention, and there was a young group there from Philadelphia, and we had so much fun dancing together. I had sent a notebook back to them and I asked them to write their meetings that they go to, because that's something new. I'm gonna say I started it in the last six months. I just travel and go to meetings. So that stood out. I hope to meet them soon. I drove 48 minutes last night to go to a meeting in Allentown, which is that far away. So when I'm home, even when I'm away, I love going to meetings because it's made me who I am, and I'm very proud of the person that I am.

[00:33:38] And, you know, you can't keep it unless you give it away.

[00:33:41] Spencer: Absolutely true. Thank you.

Upcoming

[00:33:44] Spencer: Looking forward in the podcast, we definitely will be talking about tradition six, which is “Our family groups ought never endorse, finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from my primary spiritual aim. Although a separate entity , we should always cooperate with Alcoholics Anonymous.” How have you seen this tradition show up in your meetings, and how might you apply it to your own life and affairs? We welcome your thoughts. You can join the conversation. And Michele, how can people send us feedback?

[00:34:24] Michele: You can send a voice memo or email to feedback@therecovery.show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 734-707-8795. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer.

[00:34:44] We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength and hope, or your questions about any of our upcoming topics, including Tradition Six. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know.

[00:34:57] If you would like advance notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback@ ther ecovery.show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[00:35:13] Spencer, where can our listeners find out more about the Recovery Show?

[00:35:18] Spencer: That would be our website, which is the recovery dot show, where we have all the information about the show, which is mostly the notes for each episode, which will include a link to the book that you read from, and videos for the music that you chose.

[00:35:32] Also there you can find links to some other recovery podcasts and websites.

[00:35:36] A little amusing thing here. That phone number is a Google Voice number. It goes straight to voicemail. And every now and then Google sends me a note that says, “Hey, you haven't used that phone number in a while. You need to send a text or make a call, or we'll take the phone number away.” Apparently receiving phone calls doesn't count as using it. I sent myself a text, and that is sufficient to keep it alive for another year or something.

[00:36:03] Also wanna note that I will be speaking at Summerfest 2026 in Eugene, Oregon, which is the weekend of August 14th, 15th, something like that. So if y'all live out around the Eugene, Oregon area and you wanna come, it's an AA convention with Al-Anon participation. I'd love to meet you.

Song 2

[00:36:28] Spencer: What is your second song, Michelle?

[00:36:31] Michele: The second song is the Lord's Prayer by Josh Groban. He's, like I said, he's a favorite artist. When I listen to this, I mean, we know the Lord's Prayer, and we still use it in some of our meetings, but I'm gonna give you some of the verses in it.

[00:36:45] It's just… I love it. Again, how I feel strongly about my higher power's presence in my life, and so these are some of the lines. “In every breath we take, in every move we make, we trust in you alone. Be our guide in the path we tread. Forgive our sins, our hearts restore. Deliver us by your light. When we are weak and broken and trials fill our way, you are our strength and shelter. You never turn away. In every storm, you are our closest friend. You hold us in your hand.” It's just beautiful.

Listener Feedback

[00:37:28] Spencer: I always love hearing from you.

[00:37:31] Valerie wrote, “I'm so grateful to have found this podcast. I have recently rejoined a weekly Al-Anon meeting in my town. The alcoholic in my life is my husband of 42 and a half years. Cliff's words in this podcast expressed my feelings like I'm not able to. He mentioned how wonderful he knew his alcoholic wife to be and their life together, gradually losing her to the disease and losing the hope of a happy life together.

[00:37:58] I'm so inspired by Cliff's recovery through Al-Anon, and I'm hoping to find my peace with their help. I'm fearful that I'm going to find my husband, 74 years old, dead. I separated from him on March 23rd this year. No one close to him has been able to get him to seek recovery, me, our two adult children, his brother.

[00:38:18] He has abused alcohol since he was 15 or 16. I have so much sadness about the loss of our future together. He was a patient, kind, funny, and loving husband and father, but he has disappeared. I appreciate how guests' musical choices are part of the podcast as well. I'm very affected by music, and certain songs evoke strong emotions.

[00:38:39] Billy Joel's “And So It Goes” is especially moving. Thankful for this podcast, Valerie.”

[00:38:46] Thank you for writing, Valerie. I gather that you're inspired by my episode with Cliff R, number 446, which was titled Navigating Grief in Recovery. I agree, that was a really powerful share from him.

[00:39:00] I'm sorry to hear about your current situation. What I know is that, as our opening says, we can find serenity and even happiness whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. Doesn't mean that we're not sad also. I too am touched by music. This is one of the reasons that I continue to include musical selections in the podcast.

[00:39:27] Thank you for writing, Valerie

[00:39:30] Alba wrote, “Dear Spencer, I hope this will reach you. I'm a longtime listener to your show that just donated to help out, but wants to thank you for all you do and the volunteers that are willing to come and share their experience, strength, and hope with all your faithful audience.

[00:39:45] My recovery started in two thousand and nine, and still every time I go out for a walk, I bring you with me. I stop and take notes too I call it my going to school. Thanks again for your generosity, kindness, intelligence, humility. Personally, I just celebrated fifty years wedding anniversary. Al-Anon and your show and meetings have helped me to keep the love even if I know he is still drinking.

[00:40:10] I do not want to know how much or when or where. I have learned not to use shame and to live my life as I want to despite his not being in recovery. At times I find it so sad, but most of the times I know that he has to decide, not me. Oh, thank you again. You are part of my army of people that help me walk a spiritual path for my life.

[00:40:32] Thank you, Alba, and thank you for being a loyal listener of the Recovery Show. I, I recognize your name. I know you've written to me several times before. And thanks for the support also.

[00:40:46] Carla wrote, “Hi, Spencer. As always, I really appreciate your podcast and I get a lot out of it. I have pretty sensitive hearing and I have to keep turning the volume down on the podcast every time the transition music comes on.

[00:40:59] I find it to be very loud. I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I was wondering if you might consider adjusting the volume on the music to it being a bit lower because I actually find it a little startling and I have to turn it down and then I have to turn it right back up again so that I can hear talking afterwards.

[00:41:16] Thanks for considering it. Signed, Carla.”

[00:41:20] Carla, I want to say thank you for alerting me to this issue. The software that I use to publish the podcast is supposed to keep the volume at the same level for the voice and the music.I guess probably, the music sounds louder even though it's at allegedly the same loudness level, but it's got more richness. So when you just look at amplitude, it probably comes across louder. That's my guess why it sounds louder. I am working to reduce the volume in this episode, so let me know if that works out for you because I want to keep you listening. I don't want you to get startled and have to reach for your volume control, especially if you're driving while you're listening. That's not a good thing to have to do. So thanks for bringing that up.

[00:42:05] Monica left a comment on episode four hundred and fifty-eight, which was Live and Let Live: Personal and Group Autonomy.

[00:42:13] “I want to add my voice of encouragement and gratitude for the work you're doing through this podcast. I'm listening to the podcast almost daily since discovering it a year ago. The richness and educational content gives me much to reflect on. Therefore, I am able to pass along my own growth to my community through service.

[00:42:30] I'm four years into Al-Anon and live in a small town on Vancouver Island in Canada. I found out too late you were in Vancouver for the convention, otherwise I would have made the effort to meet you in person to share my enormous gratitude. Al-Anon has saved my life and is now giving me a life.

[00:42:45] Thank you for your part in my recovery.”

[00:42:47] Thank you for writing, Monica, and I definitely enjoyed meeting some listeners at the AA convention in Vancouver. I am planning to go to the Al-Anon convention in Minneapolis in twenty twenty-eight. For those of you who are also planning to be there, I'd love to meet you.

[00:43:07] Jody left a comment and question on episode two ninety-one, which was Step Eleven with Mary Pearl T. She wrote, “I always appreciate the wisdom of Mary Pearl. A listener, Matthew, shared a prayer from an Al-Anon book, Making Choices. I can't find that in any of my CAL. Can you help me locate it?”

[00:43:28] It's in the book Discovering Choices, so Making Choices, Discovering Choices, right? And it's on page two 20. The prayer that Matthew gave is not there word for word, but the sense of it is there, and here's a little bit of the text that I think he turned into a prayer. “I now approach a challenging relationship issue by first asking God to be the third party present while I'm with the other person. I ask my higher power to give me the words and intonation that will make our communication the most effective. I pray that God control the course of the conversation and that the outcome be the best for all concerned.” There's a lot more in that particular share, but that definitely parallels the prayer that Matthew told us about.

[00:44:13] I will put a link to the book, Discovering Choices, where you can buy it from Al-Anon, or you can buy an electronic version from many different e-book sources, through the Al-Anon website. That is all we've got for this episode. Thank you all for continuing to send your feedback, your ideas, your questions to us, and we'll see you next time.

Thank you, Michele

[00:44:45] Spencer: Thank you, Michele for sharing your story of recovery, your experience, strength, and hope, with us today.

[00:44:54] Michele: Oh, you are so welcome. It's always very cathartic for me to tell my story. It also, when I hear it, shows me where I might have some resistance. I just love this program, and so I practice it and live it. Again, can't keep it unless we give it away, so hopefully somebody got something out of it when they listen.

[00:45:16] Spencer: I know that someone will, probably many someones. Thank you.

Song 3

[00:45:21] Spencer: ​ What's the third song that you're giving us?

[00:45:23] Michele: This third song has been in my head for months, and I didn't know why till this morning. I forgot about it for a couple days, and then it came back into my head. It's by Sarah McLachlan, and it's In the Arms of an Angel. “We spend all our time waiting for that second chance, for the break that would make it okay.

[00:45:44] There's always some reason to feel not good enough. Memories seep through my veins, and maybe we'll find some peace tonight in the arms of an angel.”

[00:45:53]

Outro

[00:45:58] Spencer: Thank you for listening. Please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love, and peace grow in you one day at a time.

[00:46:18]