Intro

[00:00:01] Spencer: What does emotional sobriety mean to you? How has your recovery enhanced your own emotional sobriety? Welcome to episode 453 of the Recovery Show.

[00:00:10] This episode is brought to you by Eric and Daniel. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you Eric and Daniel for your generous contributions. This episode is for you. We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.

[00:00:26] We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction, understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:39] Samantha Jo: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to.

[00:00:58] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today, and joining me today is Samantha Jo. Welcome to the Recovery Show, Samantha Jo.

[00:01:05] Samantha Jo: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:01:07]

Emotional Sobriety

[00:01:07] Spencer: You picked a reading, what is it?

[00:01:10] Samantha Jo: It's called Serenity from Strengthening My Recovery. Daily Affirmations.

[00:01:16] Spencer: Which is, a publication from the ACA program.

[00:01:21] Samantha Jo: Yep. Meditations for adult children, alcoholics and dysfunctional families. And it's on page 3 27 or November 11th.

[00:01:30] It says, Serenity. Without help, we cannot recognize serenity or true safety. What is the strange entity called serenity? How will we know if we have it? What will it feel like? Will we be different somehow? Is it something to strive for or is it an illusion?

[00:01:47] Maybe it's easier to say what Serenity isn't. It isn't waking up with the knowledge that this is going to be a bad day. It isn't focusing on what we don't have and what others do have. It isn't looking to others who affirm who we are. It isn't trying to make people like us by saying yes when we really want to say no.

[00:02:06] In ACA, we learn that serenity isn't an entity. It's a feeling, an experience. It's the wisdom to know when we are powerless and to accept that truth without feeling less than. It's the inner strength that tells us we're okay, regardless of how the world may view us. It's the ability to forgive others and ourselves for not being perfect or not living up to certain expectations. It's knowing that our best friend and strongest cheerleader is inside of us.

[00:02:33] Serenity is a state of being where we feel accepted for who we are. It is unconditional peace with no strings attached, and yes, it does exist. It's not an illusion. We invite in. On this day, I will seek and hold onto the embrace of serenity. I will feel the peace of knowing I accept myself as an imperfect human being.

[00:02:53] Spencer: That is a beautiful reading. Thank you.

[00:02:57] Samantha Jo: Yes.

[00:02:58] I had never thought that deeply about what Serenity is. Okay. How long have I been in this program? Yeah. I see that you say here that a synonym for Serenity is emotional sobriety, which is sort of our topic for today.Yeah. There's a couple themes that are within that reading that really stood out to me. Such as, not waking up and thinking it's gonna be a bad day, which is intention, being very intentional about our day. Serenity is not focusing on what we don't have. It's about what we do have. So that theme of gratitude every single day.

[00:03:33] It's not looking to others to affirm us. So this comes from that theme of self-love. And then it's not trying to make people like us and saying yes when we don't want, it's called boundaries. We learn that in ACA.

[00:03:47] Spencer: I was like, what is this emotional sobriety thing? I looked into Al-Anon literature because that's my literature, and I'm like, I don't see this phrase hardly anywhere. I did find it in one story in the book How Al-Anon works, where the person writing said, what I've learned then is that life is eternally renewable and begins afresh each day at every age with infinite potential. I now know that the round hole into which my square peg really does fit has nothing to do with pleasing or imitating other people. The round hole is emotional sobriety.

[00:04:23] That's all I could find in the Al-Anon literature with that exact phrase. And so I had to think about, what are some ways that this might show up in my life? so I really like this ACA reading and that sort of equating of serenity with emotional sobriety. One of the things that I thought, is being emotionally appropriate in my response or my reaction to things that happen in my life. When I'm not emotionally sober, I'm liable to fly off the handle, in one way or another. I might get angry, I might withdraw. That's some of the things that I thought of.

[00:04:59] Samantha Jo: I wanna speak to the quote that you spoke about 'cause it's really powerful. I feel like the part that says, Fitting a square peg really does fit, has nothing to do with pleasing or imitating other people. The round hole is emotional sobriety. I think as a person who came from a less than nurturing and dysfunctional family, I blended with my environment and that included my emotions. I didn't have an entity or identity individually from my family. It just became minimizing, diminishing, and I became a chameleon and whatever the environment was going on, and it was a negative one. And so then I started to adopt that. So when I think about emotional sobriety, I think that I'm allowed to have my feelings. I'm allowed to express them and be respected for them. And have, the dignity that my emotions are tolerable to others. And that's not the environment I grew up in. As I grew up and became an adult and learned new skills and recovered from this disease, so sobriety means to me in an emotional stance. yeah, just being able to identify what my feelings are and express 'em in appropriate ways, like you said.

[00:06:15] Spencer: I'm reworking the steps with a small group. We were going through a set of questions on the first step, and one of the questions was something like, Do I trust my feelings? Do I know what they are? When I'm in that codependent, people pleasing mode, I often don't know what they are. And if I don't know what they are, then I don't think I can trust them. Right.

[00:06:42] Samantha Jo: Right.

[00:06:43] Spencer: It's like we were trained to not tune in to ourselves and our feelings, let alone for them to be acceptable. I tuned into everybody around me

[00:06:54] Samantha Jo: Yes.

[00:06:55] Spencer: and essentially denied myself.

[00:06:57] Samantha Jo: Yeah. I empathize with that.

[00:06:58] Spencer: So you have a definition of emotional sobriety as emotional availability to yourself. Do you wanna enlarge on that?

[00:07:08] Samantha Jo: Yeah. I kind of expanded on this with how my experience in the 12 step program looked like, and I set it up in three parts, looking at it from hindsight. I came into the rooms in 2020 and the meetings began to show me that there's an experience and there's an availability of people to hear me, and I can be seen and heard and not have any judgment or discussion about it.

[00:07:36] I was just very used to environment of, again, minimizing, diminishing, and just not being able to hold space for me. So the meeting held this sacred space that I never had access to. The group participants do this service by hearing other people share and they don't talk back. They just allow you to be heard and seen.

[00:07:56] So they are the ones providing that emotional sobriety. Then in developing a relationship to a higher power of my understanding, I begin to have this entity outside myself, but it's really within myself, 'cause I'm starting a dialogue of knowing that I'm lovable and everything I do is forgivable and I can be accepted a hundred percent, from this power that's within myself that represented something I didn't have in that family of origin.

[00:08:24] I didn't have those parents that held compassionate space for me to just feel my emotions and feel lovable still. So in developing a relationship with a higher power, it becomes this parental type relationship, that I didn't have and that I got to experience now through my relationship, a personal relationship with God.

[00:08:45] Spencer: Does this connect to this phrase that I've heard in ACA of the loving inner parent?

[00:08:51] Samantha Jo: Yes, definitely. And I like that you said that because I feel like the God of my understanding has shifted, expressions in in so many ways, not only with the inner loving parent as one. So it could be a parental dynamic, it could be the beloved and the lover dynamic as a higher power. could be, yeah, again, the child parent dynamic, or just source oneness, like lots of different expressions of that higher power. And ACA helped me to recover and heal from the family relationships that I didn't have.

[00:09:28] Spencer: Thanks.

[00:09:29] Samantha Jo: So like it's a long-winded answer to how I became emotionally available to myself and developing that emotional sobriety. First the meetings, then my higher power relationship. and I indicate that those are more process-based and abstract, because it's not in the confines of like real life, like out in the world, right?

[00:09:48] When I'm on a meeting, it's very personal and it's almost just in this world of going deeper into my psyche, right?

[00:09:57] Spencer: How do you start to practice that in real life, in relationships?

[00:10:02] Samantha Jo: I define that stage though as loss and grieving, right? Like I realize, oh, I didn't have the father that can hold that space for me, I didn't have the mother that can just be compassionate and loving toward me. So I go through this loss and grieving and then, the program meetings and time spent with my higher power becomes this new blueprint that there is evidence that there's people in this world that can let me be who I am.

[00:10:27] I'll be accepted and safe and welcomed and loved. And this disrupts that pattern of dysfunctional behavior. Because I start to receive that love and that care that I didn't have. So after time in the program, there's like a natural progression to a sponsor sponsee relationship, that develops where it becomes now less abstract and more one-on-one or personal, to doing the deeper work and talking about the deeper issues and going through the steps, to gain what I didn't have in childhood.

[00:11:03] So it goes from grieving to healing. This is now my sponsor demonstrating to me being emotionally available, helping me gain sobriety through my thinking patterns as I navigate life.

[00:11:16] Spencer: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. If I can restate what I just heard. You start out internally learning these new concepts.

[00:11:26] Samantha Jo: Yes.

[00:11:27] Spencer: And developing this internal relationship with a higher power, which is supported by the safe and loving environment you found in meetings.

[00:11:38] Samantha Jo: Yes.

[00:11:39] Spencer: But then, you're like, wow, I didn't have this as a kid. I didn't have this growing up. And there's some sadness, there's some grief. But at the same time, I would think there's hope,

[00:11:51] Samantha Jo: Yes.

[00:11:52] Spencer: So now you wanna bring that out. You wanna start to see if, that can be true in external relationships. Your sponsor provided a gentle step into bringing that into the rest of your life

[00:12:07] Samantha Jo: Yes. And what healthy relationships look like. And starting over, almost, like recovering who I really was. Who is the Samantha Jo that didn't get to express and develop as a kid because I didn't have that nurturing environment. So she got to get recovered through this process. So that I can live out my purpose of why my higher power created me.

[00:12:28] Spencer: How for you did it then expand into other areas of your life, other relationships?

[00:12:36] Samantha Jo: It was a long healing process and I feel like how I worked with a sponsor to be able to like, talk to me through and process situations and help me emotionally regulate through life's challenges and adversities and negative beliefs and limiting beliefs that would come up. So many dysfunctional patterns.

[00:12:56] We walk through that and then I start to develop the skills to hold that space within myself. Then I know now how to talk to myself. I know how to navigate X, Y, Z situation. I feel more confident. I'm recovering and growing more as a whole being as a whole person. And acquiring those skills to have that safe space within myself.

[00:13:18] It started to translate to other relationships with fellows. Developing friendships. learning how to mutually share. Learning how to practice reciprocity. Learning nurturing care and support. Having boundaries on phone calls. Going to retreats and being able to practice all of these skills, so that recovery was like this safe container for years, to be able to practice how to be a real functioning human in society.

[00:13:47] Spencer: Can I ask, how long did this process, up to this point? How long did that take?

[00:13:53] Samantha Jo: Coming into the program in 2020, and then I would say the healing for me took probably a year or two because the grieving was a year or two. So lots of time. And then finally it was about, okay, let's step into the real world more. How can I really find my potential here in my work life, in my outside relationships, outside program, and then in the romantic field as well.

[00:14:18] Spencer: I know from my personal experience that it was not a straight linear process. It was sort of two steps forward, one step back, or sometimes one step forward, two steps back. When we come through it and we look back and we say, oh yeah, I can see thisprogress. And especially if I'm say, sharing in a meeting where I've got a limited amount of time, I might just skip over those places where I stepped back. Was that true for you?

[00:14:50] Samantha Jo: Absolutely. A hundred percent throughout those years, it was just daily steps, daily reprieve, showing up. You know, all the slogans really speak to me. One day at a time. Be easy with myself. It was going to meetings all the time and continuously hear the message. Continuously share, continuously practice the vulnerability. Practice, what does it sound like when we just, hold space for somebody, when we do an outreach. just all of those skills that become what makes me like a whole person today.

[00:15:24] Spencer: Maybe this is the right time to step back a little bit and say, in what ways do I exhibit? In what ways do you exhibit emotional sobriety in your daily life, in your relationships, in your internal life, also?

[00:15:41] I found some words that spoke to me of this. Those words are things like balanced and stable and appropriate. I was not in balance emotionally before I came into program. I was totally over on the anger, fear, resentment. Kind of emotions. That doesn't mean that there weren't occasionally, there weren't times when I was having fun, when I was enjoying myself, when I was happy. I don't know if I'd say I was ever joyful though. I was way outta balance.

[00:16:16] I know now that sometimes I'm angry, sometimes I'm sad, sometimes I'm fearful. Sometimes I'm joyful. Sometimes I am content. I don't know that I could have ever said I was content. Wow.Certainly not in the years leading up to when I finally came into recovery.

[00:16:37] Stable. I don't go flip flop from one side to the other so quickly. Appropriate. There was so many times, when my emotional reaction to something was so inappropriate to whatever, I'll say, provoked it. This showed up most often in, in my rage explosions. At my kids, at coworkers. you know, those places where you really don't want to rage, but Oh yeah. So those are some of the words that came up for me when I started thinking about, what is this emotional sobriety thing?

[00:17:13] How about you?

[00:17:14] Samantha Jo: I really relate to that a lot. I call it emotional lashing out. Coming from a dysfunctional family, I had to lash out to get my needs met. I use those behaviors in relationships and that gets me in spirals. I had to learn how to have a safe space and take space away from the trigger or being provoked in those situations. As a person with an addict type of mentality, things seem like a volume 10. And to most people, it would just be like, oh, this isn't that big of a deal. But to me it's out of proportion. So over time, my recovery journey has helped me have an equilibrium toward stimulus and response. And that's after a lot of practice. So I really relate to those feelings that that doesn't go away.

[00:18:03] I still have those impulses sometimes, of the large emotional anger and feelings, resentment, but now I am just more emotionally available to myself in the sense of noticing, noticing what's happening for me, taking the time to tune in to myself. Taking a break. Removing myself from a situation. Calling somebody that I trust, like my sponsor or trusted fellows to process it.

[00:18:29] So there is years of that and continually in my recovery, to help me find that zen, find that peace, find that center, and recover from those situations. So I totally relate to that. I just learned different ways to get my needs met that are more healthy, if that makes sense.

[00:18:49] Spencer: Absolutely. I like that you talked about being able to see yourself, to know yourself. I've been coming around recently to the importance for me of inventory, which is being able to look at me, look at a situation, look at my reaction to a situation, and to be able to pause and sort of dive in, dig in to what was going on in my head when that happened. What was going on in my emotions. That's a practice. That is not something that comes naturally to me at least, and probably to a lot of people. The examined life as some philosopher put it. But it is so valuable to help me keep my emotional sobriety. If I don't understand why I went off the rails, I'm gonna do it again. If I can start to understand why, then I have a chance of being able to divert from that sort of response.

[00:19:55] When I think about, in particular, step six and seven about, becoming ready to have my shortcomings removed and then asking my higher power to help me with that. If I can't identify when it is, and if I can't identify why it is, I have much less of a chance of having it be changed.

[00:20:17] Samantha Jo: Or knowing what to ask your higher power, what to remove.

[00:20:21] Spencer: Thank you. Yes. Even knowing what to remove. Wait a minute, what is it that I don't like? I don't know. Things are not good, but I don't know why. And then it's time for me to go back and do some more inventory, which I might need help . Especially early in my recovery. This is where a sponsor or other experienced friends in program can really be helpful.

[00:20:44] Samantha Jo: One of the processes that ACA uses that is really helpful to stay vigilant with your rigorous honesty, is for me, like feelings wheel, pull up the feelings wheel, identify what exactly am I feeling As a recovering codependent, I half the time, don't know what I'm feeling. So being able to use the wheel and say it out loud and be able to share about it without talking about it, without discussing it, is so helpful.

[00:21:08] And then using that as a check-in. Like recovery is all about checking in and I'm gonna check in with myself all throughout the day. How am I feeling? And what do I need? And I can do it three times a day. I can do it on the hour. It doesn't matter. That practice of consulting with myself, tuning into what I'm feeling and what I need creates the emotional sobriety and lessens the emotional reactivity I have in my life.

[00:21:37] Spencer: Okay, so I just did a, did a little Google here, and I found feelings wheel.com The wheel that I'm looking at here, it's got three levels, like in the middle there's big wedges that say things like, fearful, angry, disgusted, sad, happy, surprised and bad.

[00:21:58] I'm gonna dig into bad because it's one of the smallest ones. At the next level out, then that is tired, stressful, busy, bored. Okay. So if I could say, I'm not feeling good here. What's going on? Am I tired? Am I stressed? Am I busy? Am I bored? Okay. Yeah, maybe I'm bored. Okay. am I apathetic or indifferent? Well, I don't know what those words mean. I guess I better go look them up.

[00:22:22] Samantha Jo: Yeah. Exactly.

[00:22:24] Spencer: What's the difference between apathetic and indifferent? Apathetic is, I don't care about anything. And indifferent is I don't care about this thing. Maybe that's what they are. That's without looking 'em up. That's just my interpretation. I might print this sucker out and stick it up on the wall. because that's pretty cool. I can put a link in the show notes.

[00:22:43] Samantha Jo: Sounds good.

[00:22:45] I just wanna speak to the steps for a second because I feel like it really ties into emotional sobriety. When I'm not emotionally sober and I'm in emotional reactivity, that's step one. I'm powerless and it just happens. But as long as my second thought is like I'm aware it's happening, then I can go to step two, and say, what does a sane person do in this situation? And literally either list it out, google it, chatGPT, or call a fellow and talk it out, right? So what do sane people do in this situation? Because that opens my brain to understanding other ideas, other behaviors I can execute. So then step three, I can say the prayer, which I absolutely love, and I can tailor it to that specific situation.

[00:23:29] In step four, I can just identify how am I showing up? Am I angry, resentful, whatever. And then six and seven is my absolute favorite, and it's a huge pause and speed bump in the steps because step six. We're entirely ready to have God remove our defects of character. Not we're sort of ready, but entirely ready. And that word ready is so important because a lot of times I wasn't ready to change. I was holding onto things so hard and I was getting some sort of short-term payoff from it, so I didn't wanna give it up.

[00:24:03] So then it came down to over time, like you were talking about earlier,it wasn't just linear. I took two steps back in so many situations, and I just had to go through the steps again and be like, okay, this anger's here again. I'm not ready to get rid of it. And my sponsor would lovingly accept that about me and say, okay, yeah, I hear you, and let's just keep moving on with this, that, and the other thing. And then eventually come around again and then I'd be ready.

[00:24:28] Reading the book, Drop the Rock was amazing for my recovery because then step seven, We humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings. So it's this place where I feel like I'm entitled and I'm angry and I'm righteous in my anger. And this doubles with ACA. I have every right to be angry in my emotions. My anger's not wrong. I had to differentiate between, I accept my anger, but it's not okay to act from my anger.

[00:24:56] So I had to get humble and say, God, I don't wanna act like this anymore. I don't wanna harm my relationships. That's when I did the prayer for God to remove it and it would be removed. But it was based on my readiness. So I just wanted to speak to that 'cause that was a continual process for me.

[00:25:13] Spencer: I love that. And I've heard so many people, and I've talked about it myself, about taking that process of the steps on one thing. Just like that.

[00:25:24] Samantha Jo: You talked about payoff, like short term payoff or something like that. When I look at practicing step six, that is one of the first questions that I ask myself. Like, this behavior that I actually don't want to keep doing, there must be some payoff in it for me. What is that payoff? Why do I not wanna keep doing it? What is the pain? Right? There's some pain here, or I wouldn't be like, I need to change this thing, because most people, me included, don't change unless there's some pain pushing us to do that, right? Does the payoff balance the pain? Is the payoff bigger than the pain? And the payoff may be short term, and the pain may be long term. And so that's a more difficult thing because, when I get a short term payoff, but the pain doesn't come till after, a day after, a week after,it's harder for me to connect the two, and this is where the pause comes in. Mm-hmm.

[00:26:29] Spencer: When you mentioned the pause,I've heard it said many times in meetings, in readings, probably,I can't necessarily control the feelings that arise, but what I can control is what I do and what I say. And the pause lets me start to change those things. As I practice that, actually what I feel starts to change also. We talk about acting our way into right thinking. It also works in the phrase acting our way into right feeling. Where right is what works for me. Not what somebody outside me says is what I should do. ()

[00:27:12] Samantha Jo: Rather than acting out the emotion.

[00:27:14] Spencer: Yeah. I heard you say, I can't not feel something. But what I found is by changing the way that I react to the feeling, I actually over time do change the feeling as well.

[00:27:25] Samantha Jo: Yes. Yeah. That process of pausing is so important. It's a pattern disruptor and it inherently emotionally regulates. It's like giving us this chance to feel, instead of just going right into like the expression of it, which, like you said, that is the next right thing. It's the next right action we take in the steps, to recover from that.

[00:27:51] Spencer: A friend of mine in program had a little pause button tattooed on her wrist. So that when she was reacting, she could look at it, she could touch it and remind herself to pause.

[00:28:06] Samantha Jo: I love that. My sponsor had me bite my tongue in the beginning. Just bite your tongue and remove yourself. Go make a call, go on a walk. So yeah, there was like something attached to it that you have to do to not act out the emotion or that emotional reaction.

[00:28:21] Spencer: And also biting your tongue makes it hard to talk, like literally, it makes it hard to talk. So It's not only a reminder, it also enforces the pause.

[00:28:31] So, you're learning these skills, you're practicing them with your sponsor, you're starting to practice them in life. And moving forward, you're coming on up to step 12, because you can start to practice this in all aspects of your life, right?

[00:28:48] Samantha Jo: That's true. And as the practice continues and it'll be a lifetime, I'm developing emotional capacity and that means I can also hold space for other people. in intimate relationships, I am my own person and my partner can feel what they're feeling without me feeling like I need to fix it, or jump in, or get dysregulated because they're dysregulated.

[00:29:11] I can now have this capacity to hold both, if that makes sense. Which is to me, emotional sobriety.

[00:29:19] Spencer: Yeah. So I think we talked about identifying, grieving, healing. What comes next?

[00:29:28] Samantha Jo: The first step for me was the grieving, actually. So loss and grieving. The second step was healing. And then the third step for me is service. It's being in a creative mode of my life where these experiences that have given so much to me, I can then give value back to others. Whether that's in relationships that are personal to me, like my friendships are, you know, they give back, they feel great. I have things being added to my life now versus when I was sick in my disease. It was like a barren desert, versus now it's like a full thriving garden in my life. And that's thanks to the tools and recovery.

[00:30:08] Spencer: You made a contrast between reactivity and emotional sobriety in how you take in what's around you.

[00:30:20] Samantha Jo: Yes. I've heard that a dysfunctional brain looks for patterns in the world of what's wrong, just to confirm its own negative beliefs. I had to do that, that's what I'm powerless over. But the second thought, that pause where I have a choice, I could look for what's right. And that's a practice that I do all the time, no matter in smaller scales of my life and bigger, whether it's a present moment and there's traffic, well what's going right?

[00:30:48] I can shift my mind to looking at all the positive things that are happening in that moment, and that keeps me in a positive vibration and in a place of emotional sobriety rather than spiraling into the abyss.

[00:31:01] Spencer: Yeah. I'm gonna just throw in a little personal emotional reaction thing here, which is, when I'm with somebody who is still the kind of person who scans for what's wrong, it's very tiring

[00:31:14] Samantha Jo: Very. It is.

[00:31:17] Spencer: Is there anything you wanna say to somebody who's new in this process, about the hope of emotional sobriety

[00:31:25] Samantha Jo: Yes. You know, I would just say three words, keep showing up. And I can explain what that means. But it really just comes down to, you're worth it and you have to show yourself you're worth it by not stopping. No matter what. Keep going to a meeting. Keep reaching out. Keep doing the feelings wheel. keep doing the behaviors. Keep doing the steps.

[00:31:49] Like never stop. And then, suddenly it will happen.

Song 1

[00:31:54] Spencer: We'll take a little break here and we'll come back and, talk about how recovery is working in our daily lives. I asked you to pick music. What's the first song you picked?

[00:32:04] Samantha Jo: I picked Natasha Bedingfield, the song Recover to represent that loss part of my journey. The song speaks to early my recovery. I felt really broken and had a complete identity crisis and shift. And through the program and my higher power, I became reborn. I developed my sense of self to recover what was lost in my childhood and getting to know and become my authentic self.

[00:32:25]

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:32:34] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently? You've been talking a lot, so I will go ahead and, say a little here. This weekend, we're recording on a Sunday and I had the experience of being one of the adults at a youth conference at my church. Where youth came from a multi-state area. Several different groups from Michigan, some people from Indiana. We were together from Friday night to Sunday morning, doing workshops, doing games, doing worship, eating, all that good stuff. This is something that I've been doing for a number of years now. It kind of got just killed over COVID.

[00:33:26] We have a tradition in this area of youth leadership and of the youth really planning and running the conference with adult supervision. But the youth are always the first line here. And because of the two to three year period where things just weren't happening because of the pandemic, we lost the experience. The youth who had the experience of doing this leadership aged out and weren't there to pass it on. And we're now in the process of trying to restart that.

[00:34:05] I felt, and other adults that I know who have some longevity doing this, really feel that it's important that it be youth created, youth led. It's a totally different experience for the people coming when it's not a bunch of grownups telling 'em what to do, you know? So anyway, that's the background. we did one last year. We did one just now, this year. Next year we're hoping to do at least two.so slow start, getting rolling.

[00:34:35] There's an energy. and community and love that develops. And it's amazing how quickly it develops and how deeply it develops over the course of just a couple days. In these things, it's also can be exhausting.I was able, because we did it locally and because of, some circumstances, I was able to come home and sleep in my own bed, but most people ended up sleeping on a couch or a cot or a blowup bed or the floor, from Friday evening to Sunday morning. So you can get really just burnt out from that, but also invigorated and excited. I remember one time, Sunday morning came, I was running on fumes and I was just full of joyfrom what had happened that weekend. This is something that I absolutely could not have done without my recovery tools, without being able to show up emotionally sober, and authentic. Because I'll tell you what, teenagers they know when you're faking it.

[00:35:41] The thing that happened last night, astonished me, blew me away. In the worship last night, and again, the worship was created by some of the youth who were there at the conference. they have a worship planning workshop. Part of it was, we're all sitting in a big circle and we go around and each person says their name, and then whoever wants to can say compliments to that person. I had felt like I wasn't really connecting very well during the day on Saturday.I was there, but I didn't feel like I was really contributing. I got so many positive statements during that, that I just was, I didn't know I was making such an impact. I don't really know how I did. People that I didn't remember interacting with had things to say about me.

[00:36:45] Which just goes to show that my self image is still not reality. The way I feel about myself does not necessarily match how other people feel about me. I hope that I'm a little closer to that after a few 24 hours in the rooms. But, it just blew me away.

[00:37:05] So I'm still kinda riding a high and I'm also still kind of tired 'cause I got like five hours of sleep last night. But I wouldn't be there without my recovery program, my recovery tools.

[00:37:16] So with that I'll pass to you.

[00:37:18] Samantha Jo: Thank you for sharing that. That was awesome. Very exciting.

[00:37:22] My recovery journey is six years old and I am continuing this process for a lifetime. Staying open to learning and deepening my relationships and having a life worth living, honestly. I've built a lot of skills and I really am passionate about helping other women, and I continuously do. I sponsor women.

[00:37:44] I'm launching a community to help women understand their dating patterns and be able to interrupt them and consistently attract emotionally available partners. Because this is my lived experience and so I really wanna help women on a larger scale be able to have the love that they truly deserve in their life.

[00:38:06] Spencer: where are you in this process?

[00:38:09] Samantha Jo: I've built a lot of it out. I have a community on Skool, that's S-K-O-O-L, it's called Ladies Dating Lounge. I'm just doing my founding members right now, taking them through the process and, getting them their worthy prospects for securing a healthy relationship and having them understand and learn the behaviors that develop and build that in their lives.

[00:38:37] Spencer: Are you asking for women who have some recovery or just more general?

[00:38:43] Samantha Jo: I would say probably some women that already have some recovery, have some tools, have a lot of support and accountability. And this is like their next level because this is birthing out of my recovery in my creating stage. I've been through a lot of the grieving, the healing. I can walk people through how I emotionally handled that, how I process things, how these emotional triggers come up in relationships and how I regulated myself and navigated throughthe initial phases of dating and how that converts to a long-term healthy relationship.

[00:39:20] I've been dating my partner for 22 months and we just got engaged. So I'm just really excited. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I want that for other women because at one point in my recovery. it was really dark. I really thought that I just wanted to die. I didn't wanna go on. So to know that I can live my dream come true and it's real, I want to help other women know that's true for them.

[00:39:45] Spencer: That sounds amazing. We will put some information in the show notes, how people can get in touch with you about joining your community.

[00:39:55] Samantha Jo: Awesome.

[00:39:56]

Upcoming

[00:39:57] Spencer: I'm looking forward and I just wanna say I have gotten so many great offers of co-hosts and topics over the last few months. That although I have this plan to come back and talk about the 12 traditions, specifically the Al-Anon 12 traditions. We've only got tradition one recorded so far. We'll get there. But then I get people like Samantha Jo coming in and saying, Hey, I want to talk about emotional sobriety. And I'm like, that is great. Let's talk about that. so we'll get there.

[00:40:33] We welcome your thoughts, whether it's about the traditions or emotional sobriety or anything else. Join our conversation here. Leave us a voicemail or send us an email with your feedbacks, your questions, your shares. Samantha Jo, how can people do that?

[00:40:49] Samantha Jo: You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer.

[00:41:07] We'd love to hear from you, hear your experience, strength, and hope, or your questions about today's topic of emotional sobriety or any of our upcoming topics, including traditions. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know.

[00:41:20] If you would like advanced notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot. Spencer, where can our listeners find out more about the recovery show?

[00:41:38] Spencer: Our website, the recovery dot show has the information about the show. There, we have notes for each episode. So this episode would be at the recovery dot show slash 4 5 3, slash 4 5 3. In those notes, we'll have links to the book that, you read from. It will be videos for the music that Samantha Jo chose. Also on the website, there are links to some other recovery podcasts and websites.

Song 2

[00:42:06] Spencer: What is the second song that you picked?

[00:42:08] Samantha Jo: So I picked a song called, This Is Me by Keala Settle. I look at my recovery journey, it started in 2020. I picked this to represent the second part, which would be the healing. Thankfully I'm in the serving phase right now, but there was so much value of just going through the grief and the loss and really recovering those original wounds and being that compassionate part for myself and loving myself like no one else has or can. And knowing that's my new blueprint. I'm excited to share this song as, a representation of that.

[00:42:44] Spencer: This is from The Greatest Showman. Right?

[00:42:47] Samantha Jo: That's correct.

[00:42:48]

Listener Feedback

[00:42:56] Spencer: I have a couple of announcements. I will be attending the Michigan State Al-Anon Convention, May 2nd, 2026 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I'd love to meet you if you're there. I will probably be the only guy there with purple hair. Making me hopefully easy to find.

[00:43:14] I'm also going to be an Al-Anon speaker at Summerfest 2026, which is August 14th to 16th in Eugene, Oregon. So if that's near you, again, I'd love to meet you. And since I'll be one of the speakers, it'll be a little easier to find me.

[00:43:34] I will put links to information about both of these events in the show notes at the recovery dot show slash 4 53.

[00:43:44] And now to hear from you. We got an email from Karin. Sending you and your team a message of profound gratitude for your service. I can't always get to a meeting when I feel the need to be at one, but I can always listen to your podcast. Thank you. Signed Karin from Georgia.

[00:44:02] Thank you Karin. Knowing that we provide value to you and to others is one of the things that keeps me going here.

[00:44:10] Sima writes, hi Spencer. I love the recovery show so much. I have not been able to listen as much lately, and I feel less connected to my program when I can't listen. The recovery show is such an important part of my recovery.

[00:44:22] Fortunately, I am back to conditions that will allow me to listen daily. I want to add a correction to a different recent episode where someone was talking about the 9 8 8 resource. I've been looking back to find out which episode that was in and I can't find it. So this is Spencer breaking and it was in a couple of recent episodes actually.

[00:44:42] In particular, we talked about it in the estrangement episode with Eric. That was four 50. Also recently. Patience and Acceptance when life is in session with Kathy, H, 4 47. Back to Sima. I want to add a correction to a different recent episode where someone was talking about the 9 8 8 resource. This issue may vary according to the specific office that handles nine, eight, eight calls, but these call centers are often open to those who care for people who are at risk of suicide and not just the person who's suicidal. Maybe it depends on the specific call center. After my family member's suicide attempt, while they were in inpatient rehab, I called 9 8 8 and was able to get resources for me to get counseling.

[00:45:33] I have a friend who manages the nine eight eight call center in her region, and I checked with her on this issue. She said that the service in her region is available for care partners, maybe the region where your guest host lives is unique and that they weren't able to directly help him. I just want your listeners to know that this issue may vary by area so they can try to call 9 8, 8 for a loved one or for themselves if they need it.

[00:45:56] Your guest also mentioned that 9 8 8 calls may be handled locally and that is accurate. When I called 9 8 8 last summer, it was helpful to know that I was getting local resources. I think the guest said that when a local 9 8 8 office gets overwhelmed, calls may be bypassed to neighboring regions, and this is probably true.

[00:46:14] Also, thank you for how you addressed the topic of suicide in episode 4 47 with Kathy. It was well done and I'm sure it will help someone.

[00:46:22] I also want to share what I think is a cool higher power moment. I'm no longer trying to listen to all of your episodes in order, by the way. I'm trusting my higher power to direct me to the episodes that I need when I need them. Anyway, last week I was listening to episode 3 94 with Mary relating to meetings dedicated to people of color, and then the next episode that I listened to was 4 51, and was your most recent at the time of my listening. As I was listening, I was immediately struck that I knew her voice. It was Mary. This time you were talking about the names of meetings. So a very similar topic. And this topic is relevant to something I have been thinking about lately. I really loved these episodes with Mary, by the way.

[00:47:04] Lastly. I heard the episode where you read my email about having chaired the Christmas day meeting. You said that you wondered how it went. Just as a reminder for your listeners, since it was all on a few episodes back, I'm new to Al-Anon as of this past summer, and I volunteered to chair the Christmas day meeting with my home group because no one else was volunteering and I felt like someone must need a meeting that day.

[00:47:25] It was my very first time chairing a meeting, and I just picked a topic that I was struggling with at the time. Well, there was at least one new person to our group who said that she really needed a meeting and was glad to find ours. I received excellent feedback and there was a lot of engagement from our six attendees. I'm glad I did it, and will chair again.

[00:47:44] Thank you again for all you and your guests do. In community, Sima.

[00:47:50] Thank you for sharing all that Sima, and in particular for clarifying issues about 9 8 8.

[00:47:56] And thank you for that story about chairing the meeting. I think that really highlights that it is possible to do service, to contribute even when you're fairly new in the program. Maybe especially when you're fairly the new in the program. Michele writes, I've been listening to your show for months and I love it. I toggle back and forth between the new shows and the old shows. I think I'm up to episode 92. I just finished listening to your show on Drop the Rock. I've been a member of Al-Anon for 41 years as of next Friday. I have added Drop the Rock to my readings in the morning about a year ago. It has become one of my favorite books.

[00:48:34] Thank you for your podcast. It has been an integral part of my recovery work. From Michele.

[00:48:39] Oh, thank you. And yeah, it's a good book. It's not Al-Anon conference approved literature, just so you know. But, I know a number of people that that book has been very helpful too.

[00:48:51] Got a review on Apple Podcast titled Mahalo, which is Hawaiian for Thank you. Yeah. This podcast is rocking my world. I'm only on episode 53 at the moment, but the recovery show has helped me live day to day without fear. Thank you for this wonderful podcast. My partner has been in AA for over a year now, but it's my turn to heal. This has been so helpful. Thank you for that review. Reviews can help people to decide whether they wanna listen to the podcast, and so if you feel moved to leave a review, great. And if you don't keep listening.

[00:49:30]

Thank you, Samantha Jo

[00:49:30] Spencer: Thank you, Samantha Jo, thank you so much for joining me today, for proposing this topic of emotional sobriety, and for giving me perspectives that I hadn't thought of, and your own personal experience about emotional sobriety. Thank you.

[00:49:43] Samantha Jo: Yeah. Thank you for the space to share and, I loved being able to chat with you about this and sharing our recovery journey together.

Song 3

[00:49:51] Spencer: Yes. And the last song, which again, you can listen to these at the recovery dot show slash 4 53.

[00:49:59] Samantha Jo: The last song is called A Reminder by Trevor Hall and East Forest. This song speaks to where I'm at today in my recovery in daily communion with my higher power. I feel like I'm living a life of purpose, sharing my experience, strength, and hope with others. And just like the song states, my love is just a reminder, find your center.

[00:50:19] This is something that I say to myself all the time, so I share that with you.

[00:50:25]

Outro

[00:50:29] Spencer: Thank you for listening and please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding love and peace grow in you one day at a time.