Intro

[00:00:00] Spencer: Have you had a spiritual awakening? How do you carry the message of recovery and how are you practicing recovery principles in your own life?

[00:00:09] Welcome to episode 4 39 of the Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Amy, Megan and Alba. They use the donation button on our website. Thank you, Amy, Megan and Alba for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:25] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction, understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:42] Eric B: Before we begin, we'd like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are certainly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you'll find something in our sharing that speaks to your life.

[00:01:03] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today, along with Eric, who has co-hosted so many episodes. Our most recent one was Grief and Relief, episode 4 29.

[00:01:14] Eric B: I just wrote down, umpteenth.

[00:01:17] Spencer: Yeah. It's 40 something.

[00:01:19] Eric B: Yeah. Last time you said 40 some odd. And I said, yeah, some much odder than others.

[00:01:24] Spencer: Always true. Always, especially with you.

[00:01:28] Eric B: , Some have been very odd indeed.

Step 12

[00:01:29]

[00:01:30] Spencer: We're going to be reading today from the book how Al-Anon works, which I have always thought of as the Al-Anon text. This is chapter eight, titled the 12 Steps, and the section titled Step 12. This is on pages 63 to 65 ish, depending which edition of the book you have apparently. We'll read a paragraph and then talk about what that brings to us. Step 12 is: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in all our affairs. First paragraph says,

[00:02:09] This step implies that by working all of the steps, we will undergo a spiritual awakening. Although a spiritual awakening is a highly personal experience, many of us define it as a kind of transformation, a radical change in perception that occurs as a result of our taking the steps. Sometimes a spiritual awakening happens abruptly in a flash of insight or the instantaneous removal of an obsession, and the whole world suddenly looks new. More commonly, though, we experience a gradual awakening of the spirit, a gentle metamorphosis in the way we see ourselves and others, a slow and subtle unfolding of our own inner beauty. Some of us actually feel reborn, hopeful, free of the fears and burdens that had previously prevented us from truly living. Thus, although our circumstances may not have changed, our lives improved dramatically because we perceive them in a new and clearer way.

[00:03:05] What do you hear in this paragraph?

[00:03:06] Eric B: The first thing that comes to mind, having really intentionally not prepared like I typically would do with, hours and hours because this one is what it is. It's, gradual, in most cases. And it's from doing the work, it's from doing the work on a daily basis. And it's no longer work . It's a misnomer for me. It's a way of life.

[00:03:30] Spencer: How do you know that you've had one? How do you know that you've had one?

[00:03:35] Eric B: here's my answer to that.

[00:03:37] It may sound strange. It feels constant. I don't think it's one. I think for me now it's all the time,

[00:03:45] Spencer: Okay.

[00:03:46] Eric B: every minute I am aware and awake. And it's not always, certainly not all the time, that's a misstatement. But, they're now on a daily basis and even sometimes hourly, just by noticing, the shape or something, the shadow of something.

[00:04:04] The picture of on my TV screen right now of these four horses, screensaver,the beauty of my beloved Rudy sleeping next to me under my sheet. These are not manmade. The light streaming through my window, free of fears and burdens that had previously prevented us from truly living. Man, I'm living my best life right now. It's not perfect, but it feels like I'm living my best life every day now.

[00:04:34] I've shared this before and I love it. A friend, had a daughter in recovery and she was probably in her late twenties. He had just started an Al-Anon and he said to his daughter, you've been straight and sober now for likenine years, since you were 20, 21 years old, and you still go to a meeting sometimes two a day. Why do you need to do that? Why do you do that? And her answer is what makes me think of this. Her answer was, I wanna see how awake I can get.

[00:05:02] What a good answer.

[00:05:03] Spencer: Yeah.can I add something in here?

[00:05:06] Eric B: sure. Please.

[00:05:07] Spencer: I heard this story before, so I looked it up.

[00:05:10] It is said that soon after his enlightenment, the Buddha passed, a man on the road who was struck by the extraordinary radiance and peacefulness of his presence. The man stopped and asked, my friend, what are you, are you a celestial being or a God? No, said the Buddha. Well then are you some sort of magician or wizard? Again, the Buddha answered, no. Are you a man? No. Well, my friend, what are you then? I am awake.

[00:05:38] That just struck me, like this whole process of awakening to become awake. Like, yes. What it says here, we perceive our lives in a new and clearer way, and the, and they improve. When. I was working the steps out of Paths To Recovery, the first question for step 12 is, have you had a spiritual awakening? Oh, I had to think about it. because mine was not the sudden thing. It was the gradual transformation.

[00:06:10] But like it says here, I live my life differently than I did before, and I view that as evidence of awakening.

[00:06:20] Andback to you.

[00:06:23] Eric B: Yeah. and really awareness, it's the ability to pause and think and choose a response and not react. That to me is my program giving me back all and more than I could have asked for. it's a gift. I mean, read that, page 2 67, From Survival to Recovery . All of those gifts, all those promises, virtually every one of them has come through for me, our life no longer living in fear,blossoms into new beginnings and we will laugh more and, no longer petrified. All of them.

[00:07:01] Spencer: Yeah.

[00:07:02] Eric B: Right here I think would be a great place to put this poem. I think it really sums up for me this step.

[00:07:08] It hit me the other day, like, you know, I often say like a brick, maybe not a ton of bricks, maybe just one big brick. It was narrated by Anthony Hopkins, who as I've said, I could listen to him, just read the phone book, with the way he speaks. .

[00:07:24] It begins. I asked God to take away my habit. God said, no, it is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. I asked God to make my handicap child whole. God said, no. His spirit is whole. His body is only temporary. I asked God to grant me patience. God said, no. Patience is a byproduct of tribulations. It isn't granted. It is learned. I asked God to give me happiness. God said, no, I give you blessings. Happiness is up to you. I asked God to spare me pain. God said, no suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me. I asked God to make my spirit grow. God said, no. You must grow on your own. I will prune. To make you fruitful. I asked God for all things that I might enjoy life. God said, no, I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things. I asked God to help me love others as much as he loves me. God said, haha. Finally, you have the idea,

[00:08:44] As you said once. I'm not gonna pray and ask God for a pony. I'm just gonna try to love more and give more and be willing to support, not ask for things, but offer things. So that's what I get out of that first paragraph.

[00:09:05] Spencer: I will put, a couple of links in the show notes at the recovery dot show slash 4 39. One to the YouTube video with the reading. One to the text of the poem, on the internet. It looks like there's multiple poems out there called I Asked God, so make sure I get you a link to the right one.

[00:09:26] Eric B: Cool. There's a couple of Courage to Change readings. I thought about just paraphrasing right here.

[00:09:33] Spencer: The first paragraph of this reading on January 26th, captures something that I always have to remind myself about what Step 12 says. It says, I'd read the 12th step many times before I saw it, but there it was, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. The result. What a promise. If I worked these steps, I'd have a spiritual awakening. There was hope, even for me.

[00:10:01] Somebody said to me, you know, the only promise that's in the steps, is it we'll have a spiritual awakening.

[00:10:10] Eric B: Yeah,

[00:10:11] Spencer: there are other promises that are associated with the steps from, the aa big book and from some Al-Anon literature, but this is the only promise that's actually in the steps, and it is a promise that's in the steps. It says you will have a spiritual awakening

[00:10:24] Eric B: yeah. Will,

[00:10:25] Spencer: these steps.

[00:10:26] say, doesn't say you might.

[00:10:27] Eric B: not even. Maybe, hopefully not. No, you will.

[00:10:30] Yeah. what it really says is we had one, but, Yeah. yeah,

[00:10:34] Spencer: and that's one of the things that I often say when we're doing a first step in a meeting is, I didn't understand how working the 12 steps would fix the problems in my life or would help me at all, but you guys said it helped you and I have to believe that it did. And so that makes it worth giving a try.And it helped me, so now I'm passing it on. And that, that takes us to later part of the, of the step, right.

[00:11:07] Eric B: I'm gonna read the quote at the bottom of that page. From As We Understood, aply titled. The first time I ever heard the 12 steps read at a meeting, I became very still.

[00:11:19] I felt I was not breathing, I was just listening with my whole being. I knew deep within me that I was home.

[00:11:30] Spencer: Wow. That person woke up a lot earlier than I did. It took me a long time. I

[00:11:36] Eric B: felt home, but it wasn't about the steps, yeah, right. Anyway, good stuff.

[00:11:40] Spencer: You wanna read the second paragraph

[00:11:42] Eric B: Paragraph two. Before coming to Al-Anon, few of us would have believed that such a transformation was possible. Having been affected by a disease that robbed us of our dreams, paralyzed us with fear and rage, or numbed our emotions. We doubted that there was any reason to hope for a better life. Nonetheless, as a result of the Al-Anon program and its 12 steps, we've become living proof that miracles happen Naturally, we want to share our personal message of hope with any friends or family members of alcoholics who still suffer the effects of another's drinking. Some of us would never have found this wonderful way of life had it not been for the generous sharing and encouragement of other Al-Anon members, and we are more than grateful for any opportunity to pass this gift on to others who may need it.

[00:12:32] Spencer: Yeah.

[00:12:33] Eric B: Yeah.

[00:12:34] Spencer: You bolded. These words robbed us of our dreams and paralyzed us with fear and rage, or numbed our emotions. That was me.

[00:12:44] I don't know about being robbed of dreams, although, life was certainly not going the way that I had envisioned it going.and I was full of fear and rage I don't know about numbed emotions, but it certainly covered up other emotions. We doubted there was any reason to hope for a better life. I don't know about hoped for, I couldn't see how to get out of this. Right.

[00:13:10] We became living proof that miracles happened. So this is like, the beginning of my Al-Anon experience and the beginning of true recovery in Al-Anon for me, is yeah, miracles happened.

[00:13:22] The changes that came in my life as a result of going to meetings, reading the literature, getting a sponsor and working the steps were not things that I had ever been able to do for myself, you know?yeah, we want to carry it out. We wanna tell people about it. This, you gotta try this.

[00:13:41] I remember my wife was in a residential treatment program for several months, and I would go over every Wednesday while she was there. They would have friends and family meetings and in the morning there was some kinda lecture, and later there was like a group therapy session. I remember telling another couple who had come in because their kid was in the recovery program, I think,you really should go to Al-Anon. It's wonderful. I love it. I think they went and didn't like it. And didn't come back. And I was like, I don't understand. Why are you not loving it? Why are you not, you know? 'cause I was in the early sort of, I don't know, you might call it, pink cloud days of Al-Anon and especially since my wife was safely in recovery, at not in the house, I'm sure that colored it, even pinker.And I think that leads into the next paragraph, so I'll pass on that for the moment,

[00:14:39] Eric B: Yeah, when you were talking, I just wrote, maybe it was the beginning of hope. There was somewhere that people spoke, and read, and had stories that were remarkably similar, to what, I would never have believed anyone would understand. Believe me, I tried to talk to everyone that would listen and they all said, you, you have a problem that nobody wants to talk about. Someone actually said that to me, A

[00:15:08] Spencer: Really?

[00:15:09] Eric B: you, have a problem no one wants to talk about.

[00:15:11] Spencer: Ugh.

[00:15:12] Eric B: like, fuck. And then I found the rooms and that's where everybody wants to talk about it

[00:15:18] Spencer: Right.

[00:15:19] Eric B: no one else understands it. nobody that is not living in this dreadful family illness, understands it. Just tell her to stop drinking, get a divorce, leave her, take the kids, take her to court.

[00:15:34] None of that worked. I did it all. Restraining orders. None of it worked. Like I've said many times, I got that every book I said, sponsor told me stand on one foot bark like a dog spin in the circle. I'll say, lemme know when to stop.I'm gonna do whatever you tell me to do. I was, had a GOD gift of desperation

[00:15:56] Spencer: and it just, started to work.

[00:15:59] Eric B: It just, I started to feel better and not try to fix everything that was wrong. And believe me, like you said, it took years and years and it still goes on. Look, I still have troubles, I still have issues, I still have challenges . Everybody does. You know, life on life's terms doesn't end when you just find a couple terms. there's more.

[00:16:22] So let's move on.

[00:16:24] Spencer: Okay, third paragraph here.

[00:16:25] Eric B: Yep.

[00:16:26] Spencer: It is important, however, to remember that the message we carry is the result of working all the steps and applying them to every aspect of our lives. When we first came to Al-Anon, many of us wished to carry the message to others before taking even the first step ourselves. Others used this part of the 12 step to justify their efforts to push the alcoholic into a treatment program. But in time as we work the steps, we realize that we cannot carry a message we have not learned for ourselves. In the meantime, we can carry the message of experience, strength, and hope, every time we share at an Al-Anon meeting, make or accept a program, telephone call, or perform a service for our group. Each of us has a great deal to offer others, and that will only grow as we grow.

[00:17:13] I've been coming to Al-Anon for a while, right? I know why I am still here. I'm still here because my life will get worse if I don't continue to work this program. And one of the ways, for me, of working this program is regular meeting attendance. Also reading literature and, oh, I don't know, doing a podcast or something. Outside of that, what's important is that there were people in a meeting when I decided to come to a meeting, when I decided I actually needed to try this Al-Anon thing.

[00:17:47] There were people there. And there are people today, that are maybe gonna try Al-Anon for the first time today or tomorrow, and somebody needs to be there for them, and I need to be part of that.I think about the Al-Anon declaration, which I know some meetings read at the end of the meeting, or at least is on a table tent, which says, Let it begin with me. When anyone anywhere reaches out for help, let the hands of Al-Anon and Alateen always be there and let it begin with me. I can't rely on you or anybody else in the program to be there for somebody. The only person I can rely on to be there is me. And that doesn't mean I have to be there all the time for everybody. but I also can't slack that duty because, it's a carry it forward kind of a program, right? That is part of this carrying the message, just freaking being there in a meeting when a newcomer shows up.

[00:18:46] I

[00:18:46] know you've done some other parts of carrying the message.

[00:18:50] Eric B: I guess, you know, referring to public outreach?

[00:18:53] it was really early. I wanna say it was the first second, maybe second year, when two guys came around to all the meetings in my district and talked about, forming some kind of group to do public outreach. That was the very first time I ever reached out to you and said, have you ever done an episode? I just came across your podcast. I'm getting so much outta listening to you and your guests and you said, no, we haven't done public outreach. Why don't you join me and we'll do it together? What?

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:23] I wasn't expecting that,

[00:19:26] Spencer: and here you are. This was 2015, so here you are, 10 years later.

[00:19:31] Eric B: Yeah. Yeah, that was our first, and I've been involved public outreach pretty much from then on. 'cause I kept hearing what I wanted to do, which I wish I had heard, which is I wish I'd known sooner.

[00:19:42] My last three years have been for the area, for Connecticut.

[00:19:45] And there were some challenges and that was one of our episodes. Some challenges, but in hindsight also a lot of growth and really digging deep into, concepts of service and warranties. there was more growth. there's always more ways to grow. How awake can I get? The answer is more, I can always get more awake.

[00:20:11] Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. Why don't you read paragraph four then.

[00:20:14] Eric B: Okay. Most of us came to Al-Anon to cope with a specific alcohol related problem. When we first learned a new Al-Anon principle or practice, we immediately applied it to that most troubling area of our lives. But as we recover, as alcoholism and its effect no longer dominate our thoughts, we find these spiritual principles apply not only to alcoholic situations, but to all aspects of our lives. An Al-Anon slogan can help to resolve conflict with a coworker. A step may clarify what actions we need to take in legal dispute or may identify a long buried desire and make possible to achieve. A tradition can guide us in establishing household rules or running a business meeting. In Al-Anon's book, In All Our Affairs, members from all over the world speak of the many difficult situations that often accompany alcoholic relationships. Infidelity, financial problems, physical and sexual abuse, divorce, and other challenges, and the Al-Anon principles that help them to cope.

[00:21:20] Spencer: You know what I'm gonna interject, an email that I got from David.

[00:21:25] Eric B: Good.

[00:21:26] Spencer: He says, hi Spencer. Thank you for the podcast and for your service. There we go. Service. What I would like to hear as part of this show is a simple explanation and listing of what are the Al-Anon principles, not only how have you practiced them, but what are they, and. He referred back to show number 94, which I had to go back and look at, where you not only defined spirituality, but you also put forth a list of 11 spiritual practices with a few sentences about each. I have not found in any of the Al-Anon literature anything that contains a simple explanation and list of the principles, at least for how my brain works. That would be helpful. Thanks David.so yeah, what are these principles?

[00:22:09] I found, an article on an AA website, the 12 Spiritual Principles. He says, Bill W considered each step to be a spiritual principle in and of itself. And I've seen that interpretation in the literature in many different places. Like what he really means here is we continue to practice these steps in all our affairs. But then, in the AA 12 and 12, which was written 15 years later, he outlines spiritual principles behind each step, which are also called virtues. And there we find this list of honesty, hope, faith, courage, integrity, willingness, humility, love, discipline, patience and perseverance, awareness and service associated with the steps.

[00:23:00] And I'll put that list in the show notes. So that's a way that other people have interpreted, what it means by these principles. What do you read from this paragraph? How do you see this showing up in your life?

[00:23:13] Wow.

[00:23:13] Eric B: I, like everything, it's a way of life. It's, what you do when you're in traffic. What do you do when you're long line at the grocery store. What do you do when, as I often say, when I'm late, everybody's driving too slow.

[00:23:29] Spencer: Oh yeah,

[00:23:30] Eric B: that's not their problem, that I'm late. it's really a way of life. people go to church to behave in a better way of life and to, have compassion and empathy and sympathy.

[00:23:43] Spencer: I see that we have actually done two episodes titled in All Our Affairs.

[00:23:48] Eric B: We have.

[00:23:48] Spencer: One was 2 0 1, and then 365,

[00:23:54] Eric B: I'll read this, just this one. I go back to this quite often. It's from, of course, the book In All Our Affairs, and it's page 28 and 29. When I fully gave up and let my higher power take over, I began to relax. I had to be put in a powerless situation before I realized that I had no control over alcohol or the alcoholic could I really trust in someone greater than myself? Just at this time, I read something that helped me begin to quote, let go and let God, it said, and in the book, it's Dear Blank, so of course I wrote, dear Eric, Thanks, but I don't need your help today. Love God. During the next few weeks, when I felt I needed to give God a hand, I would take out this sheet of paper, read it. You know something. He's really done great without my help.

[00:24:53] Good stuff.

[00:24:54] Spencer: Yeah.

[00:24:56] Eric B: That good stuff.

[00:24:57] Spencer: If you've listened to the podcast for a while or if you're one of these people who decides to go binge from the beginning, you will hear, almost every episode, us sharing about how we practice these principles in all our affairs. Sometimes it's a big thing.kid landing in the hospital.

[00:25:20] Eric B: Sometimes it's a little thing. not getting into road rage.

[00:25:25] My daughters are, always saying, dad, come on. This guy's not got going too fast, and beep your horn. Go around him. no, I'm an anti beeper. Unless someone's in danger, I'll give him a little tap. But really, honestly, how important is it we get 10 feet further down the road?

[00:25:49] Spencer: These days I try to have compassion for the person who

[00:25:54] feels that they have to zoom in and out and weave back and forth and they're, they're obviously so late for something or they think are,

[00:26:03] Eric B: Or going too slow.

[00:26:05] Spencer: I wish for them that they have a little more peace and serenity in their lives so that they don't have to feel that they have to rush all the time. Yeah. Or somebody going slow. Okay. You know, maybe I need to slow down.

[00:26:20] Eric B: Maybe there's a lesson here. What if that person who's doing 55 and everybody else is doing 68 to 70 and you're pissed off, you can't go around 'em, a double yellow line, whatever it is. What if when you finally pass and you go and you're ready to flip the bird, it's this old guy who's having trouble, navigating over the top of his wheel and he is got a handicap sticker on and hanging from the mirror, or it's your grandmother.

[00:26:48] You know what I

[00:26:48] Who's the schmuck here? Okay. Who's the crazy

[00:26:51] Spencer: Yes.

[00:26:52] Eric B: Anyway, moving on.

[00:26:54] Spencer: Okay. Last paragraph here. Al-Anon offers us so much more than a handful of problem solving techniques for dealing with alcoholic relationships in time. We also discover principles that can guide us through uncertainty and open doors to opportunities we never dreamed of in all our affairs. There we go again. Our futures are unwritten books. With the help of the 12 Steps and of the other Al-Anon principles, we will fill those pages with a life that is rich in love, constructive action, and spiritual wellbeing.

[00:27:26] Woo. Wow. I wouldn't be doing this podcast obviously,if I hadn't been really working the Al-Anon program and wanting to somehow carry that message forward. So two parts of the step there.

[00:27:42] Eric B: Yeah.

[00:27:42] Spencer: This podcast has given me so much. And I know people write in and say the podcast has given them so much.I know at least a couple people said it saved my life. For which I am over awed and hope they really didn't mean it literally. But if they did, wow. I am just full of gratitude that I was able to bring something. I've met people, I've had opportunity to have conversations with, let me, how many people are in my spreadsheet here?over the years of doing the podcast, I've been able to have conversations with probably well over a hundred people.

[00:28:27] 400 episodes, but over hundred people

[00:28:31] Eric B: Yeah. you were just at that convention for God's sake.

[00:28:34] Spencer: yeah,

[00:28:35] Eric B: hundred there alone.

[00:28:36] Spencer: yeah, I met a few people there. One person, we met and turned out we had some other life experiences in common and we sat down and had our dinner on the plaza, from a food truck and talked about those mutual experiences for, I might have been 20 minutes, might have been half an hour, but it's just making be able to make connections. I never thought that would be part of my life.

[00:29:03] Eric B: Yeah.

[00:29:05] Spencer: And I have had opportunities to share my story at conferences,AA and Al-Anon conferences, and I'll be doing another one in September in Kentucky. That's not something that I ever thought I would be doing.

[00:29:19] And so much uncertainty in life. I mean, life is full of uncertainty, especially I think about launching children into adulthood, or children launching themselves into adulthood and not knowing how life is gonna be for them and being able to navigate that and to walk beside them when they stumble, and not have the urge to pick up and fix, which is a big thing too.

[00:29:45] How about you? How's this showing up your life?

[00:29:48] Eric B: I think I'm a better father. Like a much better father. Not even a little better. I'm, I always thought I was a great father until I was told that I wasn't by my alcoholic. 'cause she knew that would be the most hurtful thing she could say to me.but I would almost say by practicing these principles in all my affairs, I represent a very good example for my daughters.

[00:30:17] And they appreciate it. They really notice it. There's so much love going on between my daughters and me right now. it's like,there was some tough years as we, you and I lived them often through these episodes, there were some really difficult years.

[00:30:35] And, right now, they're miraculous. The relationships that I have with my daughters are the closest in my life, they both live with me. I would say we are all having pretty much our best lives. And I'd put it in no small part that the family situation is bound to improve as we apply the Al-Anon ideas.

[00:30:58]

[00:30:58] Eric B: I guess that's it. You know, it's just as likely something great can happen tomorrow as something bad. I can only prepare to be as good a person as I can today. And what usually happens is the outcome by doing that is good.I'm a strong believer in the law of attraction. I'm a very strong believer in affirmations. I write them and I say them out loud every day. I realized I've been doing it since I was about 20 years old. My basic affirmation is I'm better today than I was yesterday, and I'll be better tomorrow than I am today. That's enough. That's enough.

[00:31:38] There's others that are more, financial and goal, and I've had a vision of building a house on a lake some point in the future for 30 years. Since I lost my house on the lake during the divorce in 2014, I've envisioned it again. Guess where I'm going tomorrow, Spencer?

[00:31:58] Spencer: to see some property on a lake.

[00:32:00] Eric B: Exactly. I'm going to make an offer on a piece of property and I'm drawing up the plans for the house that I'm gonna build on it this morning.

[00:32:09] Spencer: Wow.

[00:32:10] And yeah, dreams coming true. Oh my God. Okay, first paragraph talked about loss of dreams,

[00:32:18] and

[00:32:20] here you are

[00:32:22] recovering a dream.

[00:32:24] Eric B: yeah. Just a different dream, I always dreamed that house I designed and built for my family, I would be buried in the backyard, next to my dogs and, overlooking the water. And that wasn't meant to be, but that doesn't mean there's a different dream. And, I'm staring at the house I was drawing with my architect, for the last week, sketching it out.

[00:32:46] Spencer: Nice.

[00:32:47] Eric B: It was completely circumstantial. Call it, coincidental. it's almost like I manifested it

[00:32:54] Spencer: yeah,

[00:32:55] I reached out for shares,

[00:32:57] to the mailing list, and I got a couple of responses. One of 'em was David asking what are these principles? So I think we've answered his email, and we got one from Kate who writes,

[00:33:07] Hello Spencer and Eric. Thank you for the opportunity to share my experience, strength, and hope regarding step 12.

[00:33:13] I have learned from my sponsor that each time I practice the Al-Anon principles outside of a meeting or apply them to something in my life that does not seem alcohol related, I am having a spiritual awakening.

[00:33:26] I'm gonna pause here because. I never thought about it that way. Like, a little spiritual awakening that comes from recognizing that I can apply my recovery principles to things that are not about recovery from the effects of somebody else's drinking on me. Wow. Head blown.

[00:33:50] Eric B: Yeah.

[00:33:52] Spencer: okay. I'm gonna continue with Kate's email.

[00:33:54] One example of this for me is the way I try to think about money and the way I choose to spend and save. According to the seventh tradition, I should be fully self-supporting declining outside contributions. To me, this means being in a financial position where I feel like I could support myself and my children, should the alcoholic start drinking again, spending money in unhealthy ways, and so on. But the first general warranty of our conference also tells me to keep a prudent financial reserve. To me, this warranty, coupled with the tradition, talks about balance. As a recovering adult who is responsible for the care of myself and my children, it is my responsibility to be fully self-supporting, and it is my responsibility to not just hoard money as a security blanket. Before Al-Anon, my behavior around money was very black and white. Either I spent money with abandon and tried to never look back at my bank or credit card balance, or I would spend as little money as possible and try to hide whatever money I did have from my alcoholic spouse. The traditions and concepts teach me how to be a responsible person with money and remind me that balance is the key. This, to me is a spiritual awakening. Signed Kate.

[00:35:12] And thank you Kate, not only for that mind blown thing, but a reminder that in fact, the traditions and the concepts of service are also spiritual principles of our program of recovery.and that I also try to practice as many of those as apply to any particular situation in my life.

[00:35:36] Eric B: Great share. Thank you, Kate.

[00:35:38] Spencer: We're gonna take a little break here, talk about some music, and then we'll come back with our lives in recovery , where we can talk about, how recovery's working in our lives today and how we're practicing these principles. Right?

Song 1

[00:35:51]

[00:35:51] Spencer: You picked the first song, what is it?

[00:35:54] Eric B: Into the Mystic by Van Morrison. Have personal story here. this is the song I chose, to reference at my brother's memorial service, who sadly, succumbed to the disease about two months ago. He was a sailor, grew up and went to the Merchant Marine and spent most of his life on the water.

[00:36:14] He restored one of the tall ships in Philadelphia, called the Moshulu, one of the oldest square riggers in the world. He personally restored and re rigged it, and the song is about a spiritual journey and a celebration of life with undertones mortality and homecoming. When you listen to it in the context of step 12, boy, it's ringing all the bells.

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:36:49] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently?

[00:36:57] I've been sharing some experiences from attending the AA convention and the, cruise that we took after that. Which we were part of a group that a travel agent put together. She calls it Gratitude Cruises. There were 450 something people in that group out of a little over 2000 on the whole ship. And there were other people on the ship who were not part of the group who had been to the AA convention because the convention was in Vancouver. And then we sailed out of Vancouver on the same day as the end of the convention. So, it was sort of an obvious thing to do. I guess.

[00:37:34] Our whole trip, we had trials and tribulations about transportation. almost all of our transportation ran late. Our flight to Seattle, our bus from Seattle to visit our friend in northern Washington. Our bus from there to Vancouver, and our flight home from Vancouver, all were late. Didn't really inconvenience us in a major way, but it's annoying, right? And we just were like, this is what's happening. Recovery principle there of, I can't change it. I can't do anything about the fact that there's traffic on the I five and the bus is an hour late to pick us up. I just can't. And it doesn't help me to stress about it. These are all things I learned in recovery.

[00:38:15] Our ship sailed out of Vancouver Harbor, turned around and sailed back in. The captain came on and said, we have a technical issue with one of the engines, and we're having to come back so that we can work on this and make sure it's a good working order before we sail off on our cruise.

[00:38:34] Eric B: Yeah. I vote yes for that.

[00:38:35] Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. There's two engines and one of 'em is having problems. Yes.

[00:38:39] So, we spent a day sitting on the ship docked in Vancouver because, as we got on the ship, we went through American Customs to get on the ship. Because the next stop was gonna be in the US. So we can't get off without going through Canadian customs, and they're not willing to set that up for us or whatever.

[00:38:57] You know, so, okay, this is what's happening. I'll take an opportunity to take a nap and maybe sit in the sun, sit out on our balcony and enjoy the weather, which was beautiful.

[00:39:08] Eric B: Something happened that still kind of boggles me. It's not related to things being late.we were in Ketchikan in Alaska. We stopped into a restaurant to get a king crab leg because that's a thing you do when you're in Alaska, right? And it was not cheap, I'll just say it was not cheap. And the first place we had gone that had that opportunity, I'm like, oh my God, I'm not spending that much on a king crab leg, But. We decided this is a once in a lifetime. We're probably never gonna be back here. We should do this thing. So we walked in, we ordered a leg and a claw. It wasn't a full meal. It was a nice mid-afternoon snack. And when the bill came, the proprietor said somebody else has paid for your meal. What?Wow.

[00:39:58] Spencer: There are wonderful people in this world. One thing that occurred to me, and I don't know how this could have been true, but it could have been true, is maybe this is somebody who listens to the podcast and recognized me somehow. And they were giving

[00:40:12] back to me anonymously.

[00:40:15] Eric B: I bet that's what it was.

[00:40:16] Spencer: It might be. And if it was you and you're listening, thank you for that because that just put such a light into our day, which was a dreary, rainy day. It really was gray and rainy, which I guess happens a lot in that part of the world. But, it brought a lot of light into the day. So thank you for that. And if you're not listening, thank you anyway.

[00:40:38] I don't know if that's as a result of carrying this message or not, but I can take it that way, you know?

[00:40:47] And also, this idea that it's okay to accept a gift, and just say thank you. And not have to reciprocate because I couldn't, because I didn't know who it was.

[00:40:59] Eric B: Yeah.

[00:41:00] Spencer: I always had trouble accepting compliments. I seem to recall somebody in meetings talking about this and saying, you know, we say like, oh, it's nothing. oh. This old thing, And I've learned that all I have to say is thank you. I don't have to say anything else. I don't have to be embarrassed that I'm being complimented or being gifted.and that makes life easier, you know?

[00:41:26] So there's a couple things where, on that trip,my recovery program just made things a little easier and a little better.

[00:41:33] Eric B: And you found a fellow member because they did, just for today, a good turn and not got found out

[00:41:41] Spencer: Oh, that is on the just for today bookmark, isn't it?

[00:41:44] So what's going on in your life?

[00:41:46] Eric B: I mentioned before the show. I, yet another torn rotator cuff. So that's been limiting my freedom to do more stuff I like to do, play golf and tennis and go for hikes and bikes. It's just become a level seven pain. And I, finally turned of age last Monday and I'm able to get it done, through Medicare and have that scheduled for next week to get this really painful left shoulder fixed so I can go out and play better golf,

[00:42:15] Spencer: and the recovery principle here is, when you need to do something, do it.

[00:42:19] Eric B: And yeah. And take good care of ourselves. Self care.

[00:42:22] I've been going to bed early, I've been icing it. I've been seeing my doctor and he said, as soon as you're able to, we'll come in and get it properly. MRI then. Yes. He confirmed two days ago was a big, massive, tear.

[00:42:34] let's put you on the calendar for ASAP. How's that sound? I said ASAP sounds too late. How about tomorrow? I even ordered myself a reclining heated chair to go in my living room 'cause I have a feeling I'm gonna be slung up. And as it turns out, I'm just finished a large construction project virtually today.

[00:42:55] I was up there this morning with my electrician getting all the lights finally dimmed andas of Monday we'll have a sign off. So the timing, it couldn't have been better. So it's just all working out.

[00:43:08] Spencer: Looking forward in the podcast, I'm going to be having a conversation with a listener about dating before and in recovery. I've had at least two and maybe more than that, emails from people who are like, what about dating? Like, how do we do dating in recovery?

[00:43:26] And, this person stepped up and said, I would be willing, I would be happy to talk about, dating now and dating before I found recovery and how they're different. So we're gonna do that. if you have experiences about that, that you'd like to share, I will be sending out an email, to the,to the mailing list about this also.

[00:43:50] But you don't have to wait for that, or if you're not on the email list, you can still share your experience, strength, and hope. or if you have thoughts on step 12, obviously, you can also send those in. Eric, how can people do that?

[00:44:04] Eric B: I'm glad you asked Spencer. You can send us a voicemail or email to feedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 87 9 5. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer.

[00:44:22] We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength, and hope, or your questions about today's topic of step 12 or any of our upcoming topics, including dating, before and in recovery. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know.

[00:44:37] If you'd like advance notice for some of the topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show. Put email the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[00:44:53] Spencer: Our website, if you haven't already guessed, is the recovery show. Along with some aliases to hopefully make it easier to find. Where we have information about the show. Mostly these days, it's the notes for each episode. Those notes will include links to the books that we read from, the poem that Eric read. There will be videos for the music and also you can find some links to other recovery podcasts and websites. and I wanna note that the show notes now include transcripts. They're in a little collapsible box on the page so that you don't have to scroll through an hour's worth of transcript if you just wanna get down to the music videos. But they are there.

Song 2

[00:45:38] Spencer: Now we will take a little break before we look at the mailbag and our second musical selection, which again, is available on the website at the recovery dot show slash 4 3 9, is Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield. I've used this song before, but it's great here because in the reading for this step, it says, our futures are unwritten books. And this is a song about creating your own life on your own terms, which really is something we can do when we practice all these principles in our affairs. A few lyrics here. Feel the rain on your skin. No one else can feel it for you. Only you can let it in. No one else. No one else can speak the words on your lips. Drench yourself in words unspoken. Live your life with arms wide open. Today is where your book begins. The rest is still unwritten. Is that a perfect match or what?

[00:46:34]

Listener Feedback

[00:46:42]

[00:46:42] Spencer: We will start our listener feedback section with a voicemail from Pat.

[00:46:48] Pat: Hey Spencer, this is Pat from the West Coast. I see that you and Eric have already recorded on step 12, but I thought I'd share a little bit of my thoughts on it. I took the third question you offered about practicing Al-Anon principles in all our affairs. and in my life, it's probably the most beneficial long-term aspect of having worked all the other steps.

[00:47:10] Find that when I'm faced with an emotional challenge, I'm able to look at the situation in the moment and ask myself questions I never would've considered before Al-Anon. Am I the one being irritable? Am I making this all about me? Is it really all about me? What don't I know about the internal environment and motivations of the other person?

[00:47:33] If I know them well, can I have compassion for the challenges they face that seem to make them respond in a particular way? What choices do I have and if I detach, how can I do it in a loving way? So looking at conflict or strong emotions through an Al-Anon lens allows me to put situations in perspective, maintaining peace, my sanity, and often allowing myself to open the door internally to hearing what the other person is saying or suggesting.

[00:48:04] I'm shocked at how often lately I find myself saying Thanks, that was a good idea. Or that was better, when previously I may well have been too reactive, assuming criticism or, or too focused on the negative to hear what the other person is saying when it was really very beneficial and contributory.

[00:48:27] Another time I really frequently use Al-Anon is when someone has brought a personal problem to me, either just to vent or to get some help problem solving. And then when that happens, I treat them as if they were an Al-Anon member. And I'm able to use the principles to put things in perspective and to offer options based on the Al-Anon traditions.

[00:48:48] I'm always careful to couch it, though, in terms of choices the person has and avoid you should statements or, or, you know, telling 'em what to do. so I, I really do find that, regardless of the situation in my life, the Al-Anon principles are almost always extremely helpful managing difficult times, and very beneficial to both myself and to those around me.

[00:49:17] So thanks for letting me share. And thank you to you and Eric for your service. Okay, bye-bye.

[00:49:23] Spencer: Pat. Thank you for sharing some of your experience, strength, and hope as to how you practice step 12 in your life.

[00:49:32] Kristi wrote, hi there. I'm a regular listener and really appreciate the depth and compassion you bring to the show. I was wondering if you have ever done an episode on PAL PAL, parents of Addicted Loved Ones.

[00:49:46] I recently joined PAL in addition to Al-Anon as I have two young adult children in recovery. I know you've done episodes related to other groups like a CA, and I'd love to hear your. Perspective on pal if it's something you've explored or we consider for a future episode. Thank you, Kristi.

[00:50:02] PAL is not something I think I even knew about, so thank you for raising that awareness. And since neither of my children have as of yet, shown signs of addiction, it's not something that I would have experienced.

[00:50:20] I would love to do an episode on it. If you are a member of PAL Parents of Addicted Loved Ones and would like to share your experience, strength, and hope with it on the podcast, send me an email and we'll set up a time to record.

[00:50:38] Thanks.

[00:50:40] Louise left a comment on episode 4 28 Separating from Dysfunction with Heather C.

[00:50:47] Thank you, Heather and Spencer for this episode. It was just what I needed on my dog walk this morning. I am not an adult child, but I am in the process of divorcing from an adult child and a dysfunctional marriage in which I fully played my part.

[00:51:00] I cried healing tears, listening to Heather's story and resonated with so much of it, particularly around shame about my own behavior, but also gaining compassion for others who did not start this cycle either. Yesterday I felt angry, but today I know that I want to accept what I cannot control and conduct myself with grace.

[00:51:19] Thank you both. Thank you Louise for that.

[00:51:25] Mel left us a voicemail

[00:51:29] Melanie: hi Spencer. Hi, friends of the Recovery Show.

[00:51:31] This is Mel sending in a message from Alberta, Canada. I just listened to episode 2 72 and heard exactly what I needed to hear. Someone sharing about how their perfectionism has stopped them from reaching out. And yeah, just contributing to the show. And so I'm finally getting in touch. I am a gratefully recovering workaholic and activity addict work avoidant. That has brought me into 12 steps. I do also qualify for Al-Anon and have been really curious about ACA's re-parenting work. just one of those, you know, when the. When the medicine works, you probably have the disease .

[00:52:16] I have been working my program in WA over the last almost two years. I a step study group that is about 19 months old now and we're on step 12.

[00:52:29] I'm just thinking,in working my way through the Recovery Podcast episodes backwards mostly. I have not come across any crossover with Workaholics Anonymous, and I would be quite curious to explore what it could look like to do a show together. So if that's something that interests you and piques your curiosity, let me know. I would be honored to connect.

[00:52:56] And yeah, just wanna say thank you so much for all of the episodes of the recovery show that you and your friends and guest hosts have put out there. They are beautifully done. It is incredibly soothing. I was looking for a little extra recovery in between meetings to be able to just take in and, not feel guilty about like flitting in and out of meetings, but, you know, actually being fully present when I do go to my online meetings. There's no WA program in person where I live. It's just, so soothing, so helpful, so grounding to have access to your episodes. They're consistent, they're gentle, they're loving. It's just such an incredible gift that you have given and continue to give to this world.

[00:53:49] And I guess just reflecting on episode 2 72 too, we're in the heights of summer, days are, not very noticeably slowly getting shorter, so there's lots of light right now. But, I very much feel what some folks write about. About how we are in a time of darkness, in terms of human development and transformation in our societies.

[00:54:17] And, yeah, comfort in that darkness comes through my 12 step program and developing and a relationship with higher power that I previously did not have. So thank you so much for being part of my journey and. I look forward to making my way through another 200 episodes that I have not listened to yet, so keep 'em coming.

[00:54:43] In the meantime, thank you so much.

[00:54:46] Spencer: thank you, Mel. Episode 2 72 was titled Peace in the Darkness. It was a solo episode where I wrote, this is my musings on darkness.

[00:54:58] Stacy writes,

[00:55:01] Dear Spencer, I just listened to episode 4 36, embracing Our Humanity, practicing Step 10. In the email comments portion of the show, someone asked about a topic show on dating. I've been in Al-Anon recovery for over nine years and dating for nearly as long since my divorce. I've worked the 12 steps frequently around romantic relationships.

[00:55:21] I have a home group, a sponsor, and I am a sponsor. One boyfriend asked me a few years ago why I went to all those Al-Anon meetings since I was no longer married to the alcoholic husband. I asked him, do you like me? He said, yes, of course I do. What do you mean? I replied, do you like how I am, how I act? He replied, yes, I do. I said, well, this pointing at myself is a lot of Al-Anon meetings. He never asked me that question again, and occasionally would ask, how was your meeting?

[00:55:50] All that to say, I would be happy to share how I've matured. And found serenity in dating while actively working my Al-Anon recovery. I'm not in a long-term relationship yet as I think I would like, but I am hopeful that I'll be ready when the moment arrives. I take my higher power with me and walk the way with integrity and love.

[00:56:08] I've been listening to your show for at least eight years after hearing about it in the parking lot after a meeting. Thank you. Thank you for your curiosity and your generosity of spirit in making this wonderful recovery show.

[00:56:19] Sincerely, Stacey W

[00:56:22] Thank you Stacey. we've got, as you'll hear, more than one person who has some experience with dating before or in recovery and would like to talk about it. I'm thinking about how I might be able to put together an episode with multiple perspectives, multiple sets of experience, or maybe more than one show.

[00:56:42] I'm not sure. I already have somebody scheduled to talk about dating, but there's so much experience out there that I'm sure we can explore it from multiple points of view.

[00:56:54] Brian writes, first off. Thank you so much for all you do. I found your show about two years ago, and it is on my regular podcast to listen to while driving list. I can't tell you how many times the topics of discussion related to what I was going through at the time.

[00:57:09] At the end of episode 4 36, another listener had asked if there were any episodes on dating and recovery. If you're looking for someone to do the show with, I'd love to co-host. I've had an interesting romantic life, interesting is in quotes. Romantic relationships with several alcoholics, workaholics, and basically women that are physically and or emotionally not available.

[00:57:29] Poor conception of what a healthy relationship is, and using women to give me a dopamine hit, IE flirt with women in order to feel validated, basically using them like a drug.

[00:57:40] I discovered codependency about 10 years ago. Then CODA Coda meetings about four or five years ago. Coda led me to Al-Anon when I was in a relationship with an alcoholic that was actively relapsing.

[00:57:52] My first true Al-Anon meeting was January, 2023. Al-Anon led me to ACA, which has helped me figure out why I am attracted to unhealthy women. Coda also led me to love addiction, which has helped me see my character defects. All four of these programs have been lifesavers.

[00:58:08] Full disclosure, I'm definitely not perfect, and I'm not actively dating right now. I'm finally letting God decide when I'm ready, but I'd love to be able to share my experience, strength, and hope. Thanks again for all you do. Brian. F

[00:58:21] So there's another one about dating, again, with a different set of experiences, a different slant if you will, different perspective. I'm leaning towards doing several episodes, I would wanna spread them out a little and not have them all back to back. I think. Lemme know what you think.

[00:58:38] Pete writes. Hello Spencer. I was just listening to Dolly Parton as one does, and this song popped up and it's definitely about addiction.

[00:58:47] The song is Broken Angels. I will put that song in the show notes at the recovery show slash 4 39.

[00:58:57] Kylie wrote, hi Spencer. I've just finished listening to your most recent episode on step 11. It was a real knockout. I found the rapport between you and your co-host on this episode brought a very real sense of connection for me to step 11, what it means and how to translate it into practice. By listening to you, I was struck by how our program works through listening, digesting, experimenting, reviewing, and having another go at life. In many ways, this is the process of learning, and yet the program is in no way didactic.

[00:59:28] I felt deeply grateful for the love and care you bring to making the recovery show and for the connection you make with me as a listener, as a fellow traveler on this journey of recovery. Thank you for your time and effort and the community you have built.

[00:59:40] A very happy birthday to you, Spencer, from down under Kylie in Sydney, Australia.

[00:59:46] Thanks for writing, Kylie. I re-listened to the Step 11 episode recently, and I agree, there was some real connection between me and Sarah there. And, and Sarah brought just some really deep experience.

[01:00:03] Maureen also refers to my birthday. She writes, hello Spencer. I'm not sure the exact day of your special milestone birthday, but I want to wish you a very, very happy 70th birthday. I hope your party is a huge success. How wonderful to celebrate you and your very amazing life. You're making the world such a better place. Your podcast helps so many people. It sure helps me. What a ripple effect you create by sharing your experience, strength, and hope, along with the voices of so many of our fellow travelers. Here's to you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Happy birthday. And here's to many more. Sincerely, Maureen w San Diego, originally from Detroit.

[01:00:39] Thanks for writing, Maureen. I appreciate the the best wishes there.

[01:00:43] Now we have several more responses to the episode, is Al-Anon for Men, which was episode number 4 37.

[01:00:53] PL writes,

[01:00:54] Having gender specific spaces for recovery can be very important, but this conversation is very disturbing and rifled with sexism. If you wonder why men don't seek the recovery of Al-Anon looking inward at your own opinions and attitudes about others, especially women, may be enlightening about how other men may also view recovery and relationship and codependency.

[01:01:14] Women and girls and other types of men have existed with male dominated bias since the dawn of written language and have had to adjust and adapt learning to their own sometimes very different opinions and view. Yet we still learn from literature. Moby Dick, all of Dickens and Religion, the Bible from professional training led by and created for men and male centric business and science.

[01:01:36] We learn from centuries of male led and dominated leadership and education. The men who adapt to Al-Anon, as you see it may gain more because they have opened their own perspective and listening. Deeper issues surrounding men outside the program rooted in a sexist view of themselves and others may exist that do not support their Al-Anon journey.

[01:01:54] Thank you for reading and bringing recovery to the podcast.

[01:01:59] Thank you PL for sharing your thoughts.

[01:02:03] We've got a few more here that again, I'm just gonna say thank you.

[01:02:07] Catherine writes, thank you for an interesting topic. I, 53-year-old female have been pondering this for a while. I think both of you seem unique in your willingness to stay with your alcoholic wives.

[01:02:18] Just interjecting here. I'm not sure whether Patrick did or not. Don't have that part of his story.

[01:02:24] Back to Catherine. In my Al-Anon group, there were four men, so a little under 50%. One father, two ex-husbands, and one who doesn't quote need Al-Anon anymore because he's getting divorced. In my life outside Al-Anon here in the UK, I don't know any husband who stayed with and supported their alcoholic wife. Her behavior was seen as unreasonable enough to divorce. Then he no longer has a problem. Whereas in contrast, all of the women, mostly over 60, except my daughter and me stuck around for their husbands to sober up.

[01:02:55] I don't know whether that makes me loyal or stupid. I'm still waiting for my husband to become a sober alcoholic, though he's made huge steps, hopefully as a result of me stopping nagging, shaming and enabling him. One thing is for sure Al-Anon has changed my life, and I appreciate all in my group, men and women.

[01:03:12] Thank you, Catherine

[01:03:14] Ray writes. Hi Spencer. I've been listening to you for years. Thank you for all of the work you do. Whenever I'm struggling with a specific topic, I know I can find it on the Recovery show. A response to your is Al-Anon for men.

[01:03:29] Is having peace of mind and being calmer for men? Is being compassionate and empathetic and just an all around nicer person for men? Is being a better listener, partner, and father for men? Is showing up service and being the voice of some experience, strength, and hope for men? Is learning how to speak and be tolerant of the alcoholics of my life for men? Is learning how to set boundaries and detaching with love for men? I could go on, I think I made my point.

[01:03:57] I just hit my seventh year in, and my life has completely changed. I am all of those things and more. Yes, maybe not perfect, but at least I'm aware of what Al-Anon has done for me. I've been the only guy at meetings. I just try to focus on what Al-Anon has done for me. I have led meetings being the only guy, and after the meeting, women thank me for leading.

[01:04:17] Anyway, I'm thankful for the program and thankful for your podcast.

[01:04:21] I'd love to give you a song that hit me hard when my son was in a long-term sober living program.

[01:04:26] It's by Shine Down, the title of the song is Monsters and a Chorus. 'cause my monsters are real and they're trained how to kill and there's no coming back. And they just laugh at how I feel. And these monsters can fly and they'll never say die. And there's no going back. If I get trapped, I'll never heal. Yeah. My monsters are real.

[01:04:44] Again, I'll put a link to that song in the show notes@therecovery.show slash 4 3 9.

[01:04:52] We also hear from Mary about this episode.

[01:04:55] Hi Spencer. Many thanks for your service. I think the number of women in ACA and Al-Anon exceeds the number of men in the programs is a numbers game. I do use the word game lightly.

[01:05:06] The sheer prevalence of violence of all sorts against women and double the prevalence of PTSD in women. It makes me think that women hit bottom more frequently and the more women that hit bottom, the more that they reach out for help. I think it is just numbers. It does not take a lot of searching to find credible evidence to support what I write here. Not only that, most of us have seen this in our own lives. Misogyny is all around us. I would love to do a show with you sometime. I use four different programs to strengthen my recovery, ABA, UA, ACA, and COSA.

[01:05:38] And I know what one of those is. So, obviously I will have to talk to Mary about what these others are.

[01:05:46] You know what they say? Once you graduate from one program, a door opens and you fall into the next one. Ha ha ha. That's me, Mary G.

[01:05:54] Thank you Mary also for writing about your experience and strength and hope.

[01:06:01] That is it with listener feedback for this show.

Thank you, Eric

[01:06:05] Spencer: Thank you Eric. Thank you for, joining me today. For signing up to talk about step 12 and bringing all that you always bring, to this episode. Thank you.

[01:06:17] Eric B: You're welcome.

Song 3

[01:06:19] Spencer: And you've got one more song.

[01:06:22] Eric B: I do. And again, a personal story with this one. this was the second song that I used at my brother's, eulogy. It's Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills and Nash. It's quite beautiful and meaningful, particularly as someone who's spent a lot of time on the water. It really talks about, healing from difficulties and embarking on a journey.Call it literal, call it figurative, but it's a celebration of, a vision of a constellation, which sailors use to navigate. In our program, for me, that's my higher power. That's who I use for my greatest navigation.

[01:07:05] The last explanation from ai. The Southern Cross itself is a constellation visible only in the southern hemisphere, which sailors use for navigation and which the song uses as a symbol of guidance and hope in times of emotional darkness.

[01:07:22] you can't put it any better than that. I'll just tell you one last thing. This morning before I was, picking up and getting ready, I found a fortune cookie on the floor. You know the saying inside of a fortune cookie. I have no idea how long it's been on my floor, but talk about a little God w Here it is. Your greatest wealth is the love you give freely. I found that this morning, sitting on the floor.

[01:07:48] Spencer: There you go. Little God Wink.

[01:07:51] Eric B: the last thing I am gonna share, my eulogy, I gave in front of several hundred people that showed up for my brother's Memorial. Um, was a lot about, he was larger than life. I was looking for guidance from some of the Greek gods like Poseidon and Zeus and Hercules for my brother, which he was all those things to a lot of people from his 68 years. a lot of them involved with sailing. But he also had a little Jack Sparrow in him. Uh, maybe a little more than a little.

[01:08:27] I'll just read the last piece of it that says, he used to call me Hüntie, which in German we become German descent, Hüntie means little pup. So he'd refer to me as Hüntie and I'd refer to him as Big Hünt. And the last thing I said, with both of my daughters up on stage around holding me, was I'll always feel his strength when I need to stand tall. I'll always see his smirk when I start to take life too seriously. So farewell my brother. May all the gods welcome you. May the sea carry you gently. And may you keep a place for me wherever legends go, when their story here is done. Fair winds and following seas, you'll always be Big Hünt to me.

[01:09:14] Keep calm and Al-Anon. Thanks Spencer.

Outro

[01:09:18]

[01:09:23] Spencer: Thank you for listening. Please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so that we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love and peace grow in you one day at a time.