Intro

[00:00:01] Spencer: In Al-Anon, we learn about loving detachment. What does this feel like from the other end of the relationship?

[00:00:07] Welcome to episode four hundred sixty-six of The Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Amber and Susan. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you, Amber and Susan, for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:22] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:40] Jeffrey: Before we begin we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves rather than any 12-step program. During the show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to your life.

[00:01:05] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today, and joining me today is Jeffrey. I want to welcome you to the Recovery Show, Jeffrey.

[00:01:12] Jeffrey: Well, thank you. I’m really glad, I’m really honored to, to be a part of what you’re doing here.

[00:01:16] Spencer: I just wanna note here that you’re a little different from my usual guests, because you’re bringing us a perspective from the other side if if I can say that. It’s a perspective that I think people will connect with. I hope to and expect to learn from you.

[00:01:33] Jeffrey: And no doubt it’ll be the same on my end as well.

[00:01:36] Spencer: Before we start, I want to give a heads up that there is a description of a suicide attempt in this episode, starting at about 20 minutes for a minute . If you or someone you know is considering suicide, help is available at the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Dial 988 within the USA to reach it.

[00:01:56] You, have a reading.

[00:01:58] Jeffrey: What I’d like to share with everyone, it’s a devotional that I have written. It’s called Your Mission Is Not Over. I found over the years that I saw a lot of devotionals that eitherwere very AA based or NA based or recovery fields and roads specific.

[00:02:14] I come from a faith background, but I truly believe that God can use all things, all programs to bring people to him, and he does it every minute of every day. So, I felt led to write my own devotion, and I wrote a, a 365-day devotional. That’s a mix or integration of the 12 steps along with the biblical principles that apply.

[00:02:36] I thought I’d share the reading for October 3rd. The topic is Pursue What Makes For Peace. The verse that goes with that is, “So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding,” and that’s Romans 14:19.

[00:02:52] In step nine we see what it costs to be right. Paul wrote to this church, who was fighting over these disputes, and everyone was convinced that they were right. And we’ve all been there. We’re convinced we’re right, and we’ll die trying.

[00:03:05] Paul’s counsel to that room was startling. He didn’t settle with who’s right about the food and all the things. His focus was pursue peace at all costs. And that implies that uncomfortability, that being right is sometimes worth less than being at peace. You know that a man can win a dispute and lose a dear, dear friend, and he considers that a bad trade. For me, this lands hard on amends work. many of the relationships on our list often involve a disagreement about facts and, what happened, who started it, how bad it was. So there was a strong pull to make amends contingent on getting the record straight. You know, I’ll apologize for that part once they acknowledge theirs. That’s the pursuit of correctness, not the pursuit of peace. And it will stall your ninth step indefinitely because the other party is running the same calculation.

[00:03:58] To close, pursuing peace means being willing to leave some disputes unresolved forever. Not lying about them, not accepting the blame isn’t yours, but just declining to make the record a precondition of the repair. And with that, I have questions. One would be, what is being right currently costing you? I would ask everyone if there’s a dispute you’re in, if there’s a struggle, what is being right costing you? For me, it’s cost a lot due to my pride. Which relationship is stalled on a disputed record rather than an unmade amend. Also, what would you have to release to pursue peace? Not truth, not the requirement to establish it. And then I’ll say this, where have you won a point but lost a person?

[00:04:43] That reading today to me just shows me the value of everything I do. My best effort to seek out peace and contentment are integral to my life and to my recovery.

[00:04:55] You know, I hope somebody needed to hear that today. I’m sure somebody’s got an argument that they’ve may not want to secede to, but, is the relationship worth being right?

[00:05:05] Spencer: Wow, we could do a whole deep dive just on that. That’s a great reading. I love it. But that’s not what we’re here to talk about today.

[00:05:14] You wrote to me and you said, ” I was in active addiction for years and spent time behind bars.Your listeners spend a lot of time learning to detach with love. I can tell them what detaching with love felt like from the other side, and why the ones who did it were the ones who eventually got me back.” And I said, “Yes.” I want to hear this story. So,we will start out, tell us that story and, and I will probably, interrupt and ask some questions along the way

[00:05:45]

Jeffrey’s story

[00:05:45] Jeffrey: Obviously, if you haven’t heard my voice, I’m from East Tennessee, from Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge area. My family,I grew up…I had a great life. You know, we didn’t have everything we wanted, but we had everything we needed. You know, loving detachment, it’s when the people you love, when you stop holding the rope for me, but you never stop holding me in your heart, and you let go of my consequences without letting go of me.

[00:06:11] And that’s what my family had to do. Every one of my relationships had to do that because I was taking hostages everywhere I went. Everyone that was involved in me one way or another, was a hostage.

[00:06:23] What it really looked like from my side, when the people who loved me finally stopped cushioning every fall, I hit the ground, and the ground is where I finally started looking up. And as long as somebody, anybody kept catching me, I never had to feel the weight of what I was doing. I never had to worry about the outcome because somebody’s gonna take care of it. Somebody loves me. Somebody’s got my back. I know they do. And again, just prideful thinking. With that being said, their rescue was keeping me sick, and none of us could see it.

[00:07:04] You know, love strikes us and love distracts us. Love makes us look through rose-colored glasses and, we try to see the best in. and my family tried to do that because they– I didn’t have a history of my family, suffering from addiction per se. My dad was a pastor. He still is to this day. my mom, she was a CNA and worked harder than any woman I’ve ever seen in my life. They were great examples of getting out there. But, what it looked like for people keeping me sick, and none of us could see it because they cared to see the best parts.

[00:07:41] When they stepped back, it felt like rejection to me. I was angry. I called it cruel. I called it everything in the world, and I justified it and would guilt trip. And, it wasn’t the first time they had heard those things, but it was the first time they let me own my own life. It took a long time to get to that point. They endured a lot. My family endured a lot of what no parent should.

[00:08:07] ’cause I started to lean into my addiction and when it started, I was probably about 15. We moved from Pigeon Forge to Knoxville, and I just didn’t wanna do that. I had my girlfriend, I had my football team, I had my, my things, I had a river we could fish there next to swimming pools to swim in. And Dollywood was right up the road, and so was Ogle’s Water Park, and we could hop on a trolley and go there anytime we wanted to go.

[00:08:30] And I didn’t want to come down here to Knoxville where I didn’t know anybody. And I get down here and I’m just bitter. So I try to start to find something to just really just to make me feel something different because I knew Knoxville was a bigger city than Sevierville, in the sense of East Tennessee and city size.

[00:08:50] But with that being said, I knew there was more to experience, and I’ve always been curious much to a fault. Lord knows I experienced it because by the time I was 16, I started smoking when I was 14, 15. that went into, me and my buddies in the neighborhood would have some of these old men, we’d– I’d steal 20 bucks or something from my mom and dad’s little cash haul that they had hid, and we’d go get them to get us a bottle of vodka, and we’d drink it, and we’d get sick.

[00:09:18] And of course, we’d do it again the next week and, same thing with weed and started smoking weed and, doing those things. By the time I was in high school, what really got me, I had turned into a stoner by the time I was driving. Not a good mix ever. I found that out the hard way. By the time I was 16, I got arrested three times in one month for underage consumption, and you would think that would at least make me slow down, but man, it’s like it didn’t. By the time I hit 18, I got my first DUI, and,I had my court date coming up for it. By this time, I was working in a restaurant. And every party that was thrown every night I was gonna be involved in, one way or another.

[00:10:05] And a friend of mine was going off to prison for five years. And so of course, “Hey, we’re gonna throw him a going away to prison party.” So we did. I couldn’t tell you what I drank, how many pills I took, ’cause I’d found that my next best love was Valium and Xanax.

[00:10:22] I went to this party and I left and I’m driving down the road as best I could with one eye open, if you will, and I hear a phone ring in the back of my car. and this is while I’m on the phone with my girlfriend at the time. And I’m like, “Hey, hold on, there’s a phone ringing back here. Somebody’s left their phone,” So I reach over to the back seat of my car and I grab the other phone. So here I am driving down the road with one phone on each ear, driving with my knee, and then blue lights come on behind me. The cop pulls me over and he says, you wondering why I stopped you?” and I said, “Well probably speeding a little bit.” He said, “I noticed your driving wasn’t all that good.” And he said, “And then I also noticed that you were talking on not one, but two cell phones.” And of course he said the dreaded words, you know, “Please get out of the car.”

[00:11:09] This was the day before I had court for my very first DUI. I caught my second. I go to jail the next day. I get there and the judge says, “Mr. Crick, did you not bond out?” And I said, “Well…” And then he reads it again and he starts reading more and he says, “Oh, I see.”

[00:11:25] So, I had to do 30 days for that while I’m in high school. You know, I’m in high school and I’m doing 30 days in jail. All my friends are graduating and looking at colleges and I’m dreading my next court date. And this went on. I don’t remember much of high school.

[00:11:39] Spencer: I’m just gonna guess that was not the bottom.

[00:11:42] Jeffrey: Oh Lord, no. I wish that it would’ve been. I so wish that I could tell you it was, but unfortunately, no. I had a friend, my senior year in high school. he was my best buddy. His name was Jared, and he lived down the road from me. I was on my way from work one night, and there’s railroad tracks that are near our house that you cross when you go one way to my house, and there was a police officer on the railroad track. And so I asked him what was going on, and he said, there’s a gas leak up here. We’re not letting anybody through.” So I didn’t think anything of it.

[00:12:13] And the next day I was going to, gonna go fishing with some friends, and I go to Walmart to buy some bait. And, one of my buddies that worked there said, “Jeffrey, do you know what happened to Jared?” And I said, “No, what happened, man?” I said, “What did he do this time?” Because two weeks before that, his dad got a brand-new Honda Gold Wing, never even drove it, and Jared takes it out not knowing what he’s doing and totals it. So I thought he’d done something stupid and got in trouble. But I come to find out he was walking down the road, up to my house and went to light a cigarette. And when he went to light a cigarette, he lit it in front of an eight-inch rupture in a main gas line. Needless to say, he lived about three days. But it really messed me up because I got home, it happened at eleven seventeen at night, and I got home and I checked the caller ID, and he had called me at eleven fifteen. I carried a lot of guilt ’cause on the way home, I stopped and got a bag of smoke. And I thought, “Man, had I not stopped, I would have been home. He wouldn’t have been walking down the road, and he would still be alive today.”

[00:13:15] At a funeral, I had some people turn me on to something to calm me down. They turned me on to Xanax, and that was the love of my life for the next ten years, between that and opiates. That was early two thousands, and it was back when the opioid crisis was just,ravaged the country, but especially here in the Bible Belt in Tennessee and Florida. I was right in the middle of all that too. By this time I’m eighteen, nineteen, getting out of school, my addiction goes from smoking weed and drinking a little bit.

[00:13:48] Got into several car wrecks. I got prescribed pain medication at a young age, twenty years old. And man, they were generous with them. But unfortunately, we know that it doesn’t matter how generous the doctors are with them, we’re gonna run out, and I did. For a long time there, I learned that I could not afford a two or three hundred dollar OxyContin habit a day, bartending.

[00:14:12] So I come up with this great idea, “Hey, I can write checks, cash those, and don’t have to work and get my pills covered. So 16 felony forgery counts later, I stole about 10 grand from my mom and dad. You know, the ones that had always had my back. And that doesn’t count all the heirlooms that I stole over the years, my dad’s class ring,jewelry that had been passed down, guns, that had been passed down from our great-grandparents, I would trade those for a pain pill or just whatever. I didn’t care.

[00:14:46] By that time, here I am, 25, 26 years old and my dad finds out about this and, and he told me, he said, “I want you to go somewhere under a bridge.” He said, “I don’t care if you take your pills and die at this point.” he said, “I just want you gone, and I don’t ever want to see you again.” So I left, walked out of the house. Imagine this, I walk out of the house and I’m trying to get out of there so quickly. I … As I’m walking down the road with a backpack, and what I have in my bag is, all I have to my name, couple of shorts, couple of shirts I had on, a, a white and red shorts and a blue T-shirt, and I looked down and realized it was October, just like now, and I did not have shoes on my feet.

[00:15:30] It’s one thing to be homeless, and for those of you that have been homeless barefoot, I’m telling you, that’s a different feeling altogether. That’s a different feeling of,of emptiness, to say the least. it was an empty feeling of hopelessness, and I remember, asking God, I said, “God, is this really my purpose? Is this what I was set out for?”

[00:15:52] A year or two there, I was on the streets. But of course the law caught up to me, and I had to go to jail. Was on three years of probation for the felonies. Also just for missing court and different things, ’cause I was a runner, I was a hider, and because somebody would always take care of me, at least I thought. And, ended up doing about a year and a half or so on that altogether. And while I’m doing this, there’s so many other things for why my family had to detach. My mom and dad, they had just got a brand-new car, had it for maybe two or three weeks. I get out one night drinking and plow it into a tree at 60 miles an hour, and that’s when I got my third DUI.

[00:16:31] Kind of a miracle you’re still alive with that. Yes, sir. Oh my gosh. There’s just so many stories. They just put up with so much. A person can only take so much. They couldn’t trust me with anything. They couldn’t trust anything I said. But, the straw broke the back of the camel when they found out that I had forged so many hard-earned dollars of theirs.

[00:16:51] So I get out of jail. I have nowhere to go. I’m on the streets and, I couldn’t tell you how long I was on the streets, couldn’t tell you how long I was in active addiction for the most part. I was 30 years old when I finally even began to accept the fact that maybe I have a problem. I remember walking down those streets and, you would just walk to try to find somewhere to stay. the, the cops wouldn’t find you. And I remember there were nights that, downtown under the I-40 bridge that the only covered places I had to sleep unfortunately had layers and layers of broken beer bottles and broken glass on the concrete, and so I would have to find cardboard, sweep that broken glass up the best I could, and just to try to have somewhere to sleep that would be somewhat lit so that someone wouldn’t come and kill me, and take what I didn’t even have.

[00:17:42] I slept in burned out buildings. I remembersleeping in cars and it being so cold outside that my feet nearly got frostbit. I remember, one night I had to sleep in this shed. It started raining on me out of nowhere, and I had to sleep in this shed, and there was nowhere to sit down ’cause whoever owned it had tools and machinery and everything in it. So I had to literally sleep standing up in this shed until daylight just because it was the only place that I wouldn’t get rained on.

[00:18:12] Spencer: So at this point, your parents have given up on you, tossed you out?

[00:18:17] Jeffrey: They knew. Dad’s told me. He said “Son, you know, it’s out of my hands.” he said, “Where you’re at,” he said, “There’s nothing I can do. You have to decide if you’re gonna change. And, I pray that you don’t, that you don’t, that you don’t die.” They would tell me. They would even say, ” I love you, but I just can’t. There’s nothing I can do to help you unless you’re willing to help yourself.”

[00:18:39] And at the time, I just wasn’t there. Even after all those charges, all the time in jail, all the time under the bridges and under the trees and under the blankets, in the burned-out buildings and in the cars, I didn’t get it, man. And I just still wanted to get high. I still felt like I was okay.

[00:18:58] Finally, Ihad a friend that he let me stay for a week or two with him. It was a friend that I’d made in jail, buddied up with and ran into him at a gas station, and so he let me hang there for a little while. And, long story short, we were doing some work for some people, whatever work we could get to pay for our habit. And while we were at one of these houses, I end up stealing some sports memorabilia, and so he kicks me out. and this was my very, very, very last bridge of anybody at all. I was at the point to where the only people that would even take me in, to consider taking me in were people I did time with, if that gives you any indication. And there’s, gosh, there’s so much more that I could go into.

[00:19:42] I finally, I left his house. I’m almost 30 at this time. I’ve still got these felonies on my back. Still got these DUIs on my back from my 20s that I had still been running from and still hadn’t completed sentences. I had everything weighing on me and nothing to lose. I was walking down the road, and I had a beer in my hand. It was the last one, and I stopped at the Kern’s Bakery. It’s a pretty big building downtown Knoxville, but it was dark, and so I knew I could just kinda crash beside that building and go to sleep and see what the next day was gonna bring, you know, the next hopeless day.

[00:20:19] By this time also, there’s so much more dovetailed into this because I had tried to commit suicide. I told myself, “I’m so much better off dead. The world’s better off without me. my family only seems happy when I’m not around. I would rather be dead than have this level of hopelessness.”

[00:20:35] So I tried. I took four syringes, filled those things with Oxycontin as much as I could, and I laid them out, grabbed two to hit myself with two at a time, grabbed the other two right after to try to hit myself with four total. I remember waking up on the ground. Two of those still laying there next to me and I was so angry at God because I was like, “You won’t even let me kill myself right.”

[00:20:59] That was about the week of the end there when I was walking down the road and stopped at that bakery and just sat down. I passed out and it was an hour or two later, and this little African American sweet police officer comes pulling up. And she said, “Honey, what are you doing out here?” And I said, “Ma’am, I don’t know.” By that time I was actually in tears. I said, “I do not know.”

[00:21:23] She said, “Do you struggle with drugs and alcohol?” And I said, “I think it’s probably safe to say I do.” Because by this time, here I am, I’ve been in addiction since I was 14 years old, I’m nearly 30. Never been to treatment one time. Never. And somehow, by God’s grace, survived. I couldn’t tell you the overdoses. ‘Cause I don’t remember my 20s.

[00:21:42] I just remember waking up in jail for different things, and then not knowing what I’m in jail for or what I’m getting ready to be arraigned for until they tell me. And that’s a scary feeling to be in jail and be like, “Oh my God, why am I here? I was driving last night. Tell me I didn’t get in a wreck and kill a family.” And you don’t know until you get arraigned, and there’s a lot of fear in that.

[00:22:03] But I told her, I said, “You know what? Yes, I need help. can you help me get that help?” And she said, “I believe we can.” she said, “I’m not even gonna take you to jail.” she said, “But I’m gonna write you a ticket.” And she said, “With this ticket, I’m gonna…” ’cause what it was, I asked her, I said, “I would do something.” I said, “I have nowhere to go, nothing to do.”

[00:22:22] I said, “Nobody will have anything to do with me.” And nobody would. And I knew a lot of people in this area. I got along with everybody until addiction helped me not get along with everybody. And,but I had no one.

[00:22:39] I would always gravitate back to my parents’ house when they weren’t around. They had a detached garage, and I would sleep there when I could, when I knew that they weren’t gonna be around for a day or two. I could sneak into the back of the garage because there was this old board underneath it It was loose, and I could go in there. And when I say this old garage, I don’t mean a nice three-car garage. This was an old garage that my great-grandfather had built on the property, if that gives you any indication. It was leaning over, starting to.

[00:23:08] Me and my dad had an old ’71 Chevy step side pickup in there, and I had managed to snuggle some blankets in there. And so that was where I slept a lot for a long time, and no- nobody knew. I spent many a nights in that ’71 Chevy crumpled up, just trying to stay warm. And so I knew I didn’t wanna sleep in that truck anymore . I knew I didn’t wanna sleep in another burned out building, and I knew if I got help, I may not have to. When I decided to get help, when I decided I didn’t wanna live in the truck again, I never wanted to sleep in a burned out building again, and I never had to.

[00:23:43] I got picked up here for the warrant for failure to appear, one of probably, I think I had about 15 in my past and when I went to court, that police officer was there. She shared that she had spoke with me and my need for recovery, and the judge granted it even though I was still on probation for the forgeries. And he had me wait. I had to be put on a waiting list. ‘Cause it was harder to get into a program than it is now. There weren’t as many. There were only a handful here, and it was about a 60 to 90-day waiting list from jail. You had to call every day to show them you were serious, and I called every single day. For once in my life, I said, “I’m gonna do something different,” and I did.

[00:24:21] After my 90 days or so, I went to this place called Center Point and The wildest thing happened. I met people there that understood exactly where I was.

[00:24:33] I had this young lady come up to me. I hadn’t been there but just an hour or so. I walked into rehab, and the lady said ” what do you struggle with?” And I was like, “What do you mean?” she said, “What’s your drug of choice. And I said, “I’ve got a lot of those.” Said, “I really don’t mind. Whatever.” And she said, “How long have you been clean?” And for the first time, even though it was jail time, it was still clean time. I was clean while I was in jail. I said, “You know what? This is the first time in half of my life that I’ve been clean for almost three months.”

[00:25:06] I started going to the meetings and the groups, and it made sense, man. A different way to live actually made sense that I never thought existed. I thought that rehab was gonna be like jail. You know, that’s all I knew. I thought that it was just gonna be people that were telling you that you were a worthless loser, get clean or die, ’cause that’s the perception I had, which it’s not. If anybody needs help, I assure you it’s not. It will change your life, if you let it.

[00:25:34] And I was willing to do the work. and while I was there, I know it’s wild, and I know it was early on, but I started talking with people that were struggling as well, and they started talking to me. People started coming to me talking about their problems, and I learned that, hey I might have a purpose after all. Just maybe. Maybe my life isn’t as useless as I thought.

[00:25:57] And this is kind of when the restoration starts to take place, but I ended up leaving that program and I went to a halfway house. Before I left the program, I told my counselor and I told the director of the treatment center, I said, “You know something, guys?” I said, “This has changed my life, and I see what it can do.”

[00:26:17] By this time I started calling my parents, and started telling them, “Hey, I’m in treatment. I don’t know what it means to you, but just know I’ve never done this before.” And I admitted I had a problem to them finally. … You know, I never admitted I had a drug problem. I always talked it off and played it off. And finally, since my parents were willing to set me aside,and let me come to the end of myself, they were still able to love me from a distance, support me from a distance. And it was a big distance for a while, for a long time.

[00:26:50] Spencer: I’d like to dig a little into how your parents detached from you. How you knew that they still loved you, but that they were not, as you said, rescuing you or holding the rope for you any longer.

[00:27:04] Jeffrey: My parents, they were always good about showing love one way or another. And they loved me enough to speak the truth in love. My mom always was more, engaged with me than my dad. My mom would every now and then she’d call just to check in and she would tell me, “Now, you know I can’t do anything. I can’t give you any money. I can’t do any of those things.” She said, “But, you know your mom loves you.” She’d say, “And your dad loves you.” She said, ” but we just can’t, we can’t do it.”

[00:27:34] People hear detachment and they think it means my parents stopped loving me. They showed up to say no. My dad didn’t send word through somebody else. I’ll tell you this much, my dad came to jail to visit me just to tell me that he was not going to bond me out because this was the safest place that I could be. And then hung up the phone and walked out. He didn’t want ill for me, but he couldn’t handle it in his life.

[00:28:06] You know, it takes more love to look your son in the eye and say no than to write a check and drive away. They said no to the addiction, never to my life. When I overdosed at twenty and I woke up with my mom and my dad over me, I laid on the couch for thirty, forty-five minutes while I listened to him, share about what I could offer the world, but was unable to right now. And he wanted to see that. But right now,unfortunately, he had to watch his son die. He would tell me that he didn’t wanna see that.

[00:28:42] I remember there was a time, where I was out in the garage. I had been withdrawing off Xanax and began to hallucinate and come walking out of the garage at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, and my dog was outside barking. My dad heard it, and come outside. I began to go into convulsions. I began to hallucinate and hear things and see things. And so he brought me in. They took me to the doctor, and got me set, got me stable again.

[00:29:10] But then he took me right back down to the Salvation Army. I remember he made sure I had the $10 I needed for my ID, ’cause I had to have an ID before I could get into the Salvation Army. He took me to the Salvation or to the DMV just to get an ID and then took me straight to the, the Salvation Army. And it wasn’t a, “Get your tail out of the car. I hate you.” It was, “Son, you know I hate that this is where we are, but this is how it has to be.”

[00:29:37] Spencer: How did that feel to you at the time?

[00:29:40] Jeffrey: I understood where he was coming from. At the time, I was just so focused on the fact of, “Crap, There’s no way I can benefit from him right now.” That’s all I cared about, you know? But yes, they closed the door on the chaos when it come to the medical needs and things, when the needs were met. But every time my life was on the line, they came, but they had boundaries, and they stuck to them.

[00:30:05] They never stopped praying, and I know that for a fact. I had an aunt that I was so angry at her in a loving way, ’cause she told me years and years ago, she said, “Jeffrey, When you were young, I don’t know what it was you were getting into, but I prayed that whatever you did in life that you were not supposed to be doing, that God would have you found out and get you caught and get it exposed to protect you.” I look back at my life, man, and virtually everything in my life has been exposed. I laugh when I think about things that I got caught about that I don’t know how in the world I got caught. Maybe it’s her answered prayer, you know. If you ever want to pray for your kids, pray that they get caught.

[00:30:51] When I broke down, when I had that week of stabilization, my aunt came down and sat with me. They didn’t offer anything. They didn’t give me any money, but they were there. Then once I was stable, again, “You can’t be here.” and it sucked, man, as far as how I felt. I felt lonely because I knew my family was a good family and wanted the best for me.

[00:31:15] But by this time too, man, I had so much shame and guilt that I didn’t think I was worth it. I didn’t see any value I had to the world. But I was gonna share with you, as I was completing, rehab, when I came back changed. I’ll never forget when I left treatment, I told those two counselors, ” fellas, I truly believe that I’m might be led to become a counselor myself.” And you know what they said to me?

[00:31:38] Spencer: No. What’d they say?

[00:31:40] Jeffrey: They laughed in my face and told me that that was the craziest thing they ever heard. I didn’t let it stop me. I’ve always been driven to get whatever I want, even though it was drugs a lot of times and things that would kill me. But, by God’s grace, when He opened doors for restoration, man, He opened them.

[00:31:59] After years away, when I went to that halfway house, I remember they welcomed me home for Thanksgiving. They forgave me, and we started that work of restoring what I had broken. I remember when I left, when Dad drove me back, he reached in his wallet and gave me a $100 bill. That’s the first time my dad had given me money and trusted that he could give me money and it not go towards something that could possibly kill me, in almost 20 years. I held onto that $100 bill for months and months and months because the money didn’t matter, you know? The heart behind it, what that exemplified meant so much more than anything.

[00:32:42] I was offered an opportunity as an intern at a rescue mission. All I had was a GED and a criminal record. At this point, I just knew I needed to serve somebody, do something, get out of myself because it had always been about me. So I did anything and everything that rescue mission asked, for nine months. I did it for fifty bucks every two weeks. I sat with whoever was struggling. I would help people get into programs all across the country. You know, whatever it took to keep me on the straight and narrow.

[00:33:10] During that time, I decided, “Hey, all these people in this rescue ministry have degrees. I need that.” I was able to go to a small university, where I actually teach now, to get an associate’s degree in Christian ministry and leadership. And I said, cool. I think I could probably get another one, or I’d probably even get a bachelor’s.” Then I went and got a bachelor’s in Christian leadership and Christian counseling. And I said, “maybe I should keep this up.” And so I did. So I got a second associate’s in religion, then I got a second bachelor’s in religion.

[00:33:41] You know, faith’s been an integral piece. Faith’s what’s kept me alive, even when it wasn’t always mine. You know, the loving detachment piece, the biggest part I believe for me was the prayer. That’s the only reason I believe I’m alive today is the prayers of people that kept me alive to be able to one day share hope with others so that they can share hope with others. That’s the only reason I’m talking to you right now. I truly believe that.

[00:34:05] So I went on, got a master’s in human service counseling and pastoral counseling certification after that. And I’m finishing my second master’s right now in clinical mental health counseling.

[00:34:17] But I think this is the coolest thing with my family and the detachment piece and how it all closed together. When I had been at the mission for probably about five years, I had worked to try to rebuild every area of my life and, but the one area that I felt that could never be overturned or ever changed was my record, right? I have 30 different charges. I’ve done just so much stuff, years and years of stuff. But by this time, it had been over 10 years since I’d been in any trouble and I said, “I’m gonna put this out here and I’m gonna go out on a limb, but I’m gonna apply for a pardon. You know, what are the odds?”

[00:34:54] So I applied for a pardon. Took a long time, long process. A lot of letters from a lot of people, a lot of stuff to show. You know, even while I was thinking through and getting these degrees, I was like, “If I get this, maybe this could be something I could show towards the pardon.”

[00:35:08] After about a year and a half of the application process, I get a letter from the Board of Probation and Parole, and it says, “We just wanna let you know that we’re currently reviewing your application. If we need any more info, we’ll let you know.” About six months later, I get a letter from the Pardon Board, and they say, “We’d like for you to come to Nashville for an in-person hearing with the Board of Probation and Parole for the governor’s Executive Clemency Board.” And I said, “Okay. let’s do that.”

[00:35:37] So I talked to Dad and I said, “Dad, I got something I wanna talk to you about.” I said, “This is big. I’ve been asked to go to Nashville to speak to the Clemency Board about possibly receiving a full pardon for my record because of what I’ve been able, by God’s grace, to go through and experience over the past 10 years.”

[00:35:53] And he said, “Well, son, when is it?” And I said, “this day.” And I said, “It would mean a lot for you to come. And I’ll be honest, I don’t want you to come in there and try to sugarcoat things and, try to talk me up to make this any better than what it is. I just would like your support if you’re willing to give it.” So we went to this meeting.

[00:36:11] Over the years, I’ve worked with hundreds and hundreds of people from all different walks of life and all different settings. And, you get pretty comfortable with uncomfortable settings. I have never been in a more uncomfortable setting in my life than when they called me into the Executive Clemency Board with a room of seven people, all sitting individually right beside one another in these large desks, in this very big room, with probably 15 or 20 other people that I do not know that are on laptops and computers and are looking me dead in the eye.

[00:36:46] Part of the Pardon Board is you had to write out a narrative of everything you’ve done. They asked me to share a little bit about my story. They asked me about my charges. They asked me about every single one and every one of them I owned. I said, “Look, every single one of these are me.” I said, “I cared about nothing but whatever could make me not feel my feelings.” Because of that, I ravaged everything around me and just left a trail burning.” And I told them, I said, but that’s not who I am today.”

[00:37:14] I said, “I hope you can see, through these…” I think I had about 15 or 20 letters of recommendation. Again, God’s grace. I had army officers wrote things, judges had wrote things, lawyers, volunteers at the rescue mission, just so many people,that God had put in me. Think about it. There I was in October with no shoes and no body, and then 10 years after I asked God, “What’s my purpose?” I’m in this room talking to these people.

[00:37:41] The last person they asked to speak was my dad, and he told them, he said, “You all have read a lot about my son.” He said, “You all have read some things I likely don’t know, nor do I really care to hear.” And he said, “Everything he said, everything in there is true.” He said, “I experienced every bit of it.” He said, “I’ve came in, went upstairs day after day after day to check on him to make sure he was still breathing.” He said, “I’ve taken his car keys.” He said, “I’ve taken wheels off of his cars so that he could not drive, and he’s tried to drive it not realizing there wasn’t wheels on the car.” He said, ” he stole from me.” He said, “I’ve been in court, time after time, for money that I’ll never get back.” He said, “And I’m not worried about that.”

[00:38:23] He said, “But I will say this, I want you all to know this.” He said, “God’s got a purpose for him, there’s no doubt. He’s using him in a way now that you’ll never know.” He said, “But the one thing I want to say about this, and I hope everyone here has the opportunity to possibly hear this from their parents.”

[00:38:38] He told them, he said, “If I had to go through everything that I have had to go through with my son for these past 30 years to see where God’s got him today,” he said, “I would do it all over again.”

[00:38:51] And there, man, there was not a dry eye in that boardroom. And they told me, ” we see what you’ve done. It’s all laid bare. This is you.” They said, “We see a young kid that was foolish, that was addicted, and that, and did what people that are foolish and addicted did.” They said, “But let me ask you,” they said, “Do you feel like you have a compelling reason for a pardon at this time?” And I said, “I believe I do.” I shared a little bit about what I was doing there. ‘Cause by that time I had built, been able to build and direct and design one of the first co-ed residential faith-based, long-term, restoration workforce development programs in a rescue mission in the country.

[00:39:36] And they said, “We just want you to know that we all vote unanimously to go to the governor and recommend him sign your pardon.” about a year later, the week before Christmas, I got a phone call from the governor’s office to let me know Governor Lee called me, to tell me that,with everything he’s seen, the history of all the craziness and everything with it, the restoration piece, he said he absolutely felt that this is why the pardon system existed and, that he’d be glad to help me out with a slap of the pen. So he did. Governor Lee signed a full pardon. By God’s grace, man, I no longer have a criminal record.

[00:40:17] I have a family that has got my back when I didn’t have theirs, and it’s because their no and their love were never opposites. The no was how the family finally reached me. I’m so thankful for that today because had they not,had they wanted to be my friend and embellished and enabled me the way that I wanted them to do, there’s no way we’d have this conversation. There’s no way that I would’ve had the opportunity, by God’s grace, to have hundreds of conversations with people that might need hope. Had it not been for their willingness to lovingly pull back, because they saw the big picture and they loved me enough to turn me off and turn me off to the end of myself, I wouldn’t be able to do the one thing that I had people laugh in my face over 10 years ago, you know? So, I’m glad to be here, buddy.

[00:41:16] Spencer: Thank you for sharing that, Jeffrey.

[00:41:19] For your parents, I think it’s really hard to say, “I love you, and I’m not gonna continue to support what you’re doing.”And they, somehow they did that,

[00:41:28] Jeffrey: Yeah. They were faithful to it.

[00:41:31] Spencer: Okay, we’re gonna take a little break, take a breath, and then we’ll come back with Our Lives in Recovery, where we talk about how recovery is working in our daily lives.

Song 1

[00:41:41] Spencer: I did ask you to bring some music. What’s the first thing you picked?

[00:41:45] Jeffrey: Of course, I put Chain Breaker in there. Zach Williams

[00:41:49] Spencer: Tell me what this song means to you

[00:41:51] Jeffrey: For 20 years, I was in chemical slavery. You know what I mean? Everything in my life was bound. I was in my own prison. I tried to make it a kingdom of one and turned it into a prison for one, if you will. And, this song for me, just shows, the goodness and the richness and the faithfulness of God’s grace and his willingness to not just loosen the reins on us, not loosen the rope, but literally to break the chain of the thing that held me captive. Because I couldn’t do it. That song, when I first heard it, it was one of the first songs that really dug into how it’s not just Xanax, it’s not just weed, it’s not just alcohol, it’s not just pain pills. Anything can chain us up, Anything and everything chains us up. At least for me.

[00:42:50] And it’s only by God’s grace. I don’t have the strength to break a chain myself. I needed something infinitely greater than me and infinitely stronger to do it, and that’s where God came in, with His faithfulness, with His, His goodness, with His persistence to, give me the ability to persist through.

[00:43:10] I think the beauty of it is, God had a way of orchestrating the people in my life that I needed in my life for the seasons of growth that I needed. And that’s another way that He helps break those chains, because He’s put people in my life that understand what it’s like and can support me, encircle me in support, and help me to see that I don’t ever have to go clasp myself back up to it. It means a lot.

[00:43:36] I had a great friend that died of an overdose in Indianapolis. His father, Rick Colglazier, in his honor, started a new men’s program right outside of Indianapolis called Chain Breaker Ministries, and they’re the real deal. They speak truth and love, ’cause he had to do the same. Rick had to do the same thing with Tyler as my dad did with me, and unfortunately Rick doesn’t have his son here today. But Rick’s able to make and is in the process of still making an impact all through the Indianapolis, Indiana area, through Tyler’s honor.

[00:44:15] I think a lot about that. We don’t realize what we’re prisoner to until we have nothing but the prison we’re in. To be able to see and experience those chains actually break, and a life open up to you that you never ever even felt you deserved because of the shame. To have that life open up to you and to be able to experience it and help others have hope through your story, it doesn’t get any better than this, man, you know?

[00:44:43] And so that’s what it means to me.

[00:44:46]

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:44:54] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently?

[00:45:01] Jeffrey: These past ten, 12 years have been great. They’ve been hard. There’s been some hard times. I’ve lost some family members I’ve loved and things like that and had to go through that. But, the roles that I’ve been placed in over the past few years have been nothing but the validation of me, if the only reason I’m alive is to share hope.

[00:45:20] And so with that, I think a lot of times, when people get into recovery and sharing about their recovery, you hear a lot of good, about how things are going great. And they are. They are. Life is beautiful. But man, we still have struggles in recovery, don’t we?

[00:45:34] Spencer: Yes, we do

[00:45:35] Jeffrey: I’m gonna cap off with where I’m at in life today. I’m back at the Rescue Mission. I recently accepted a role with them. When you work with so many of the most broken people in your region all the time, everybody that comes to you is in crisis mode, is in active trauma just because they’re at a rescue mission. And over time, if you’re not prayed up, if you’re not doing your spiritual disciplinesand studying and surrounding yourself with the people that lift you up and support you, and you start to get out on that island again, man, you start to get burned out.

[00:46:09] Compassion fatigue’s a real thing. And, spiritual burnout,pastoral burnout, leadership burnout, counseling burnout, those things are essentials. So over the past couple years, I’ve really made it my aim, I’ve prayed a lot about, “Okay, what can I do that’s something that I can do?” An organization that I could initiate that could help leaders, counselors, the individual that’s still in the ditch, the churches, their organizations.

[00:46:38] But here’s another one . What about the families? The families are often left out of the care piece on this, and they’re the ones that suffer the most. What about the kids when the, the parents are coming home from prison? I wrote a book called When Dad Comes Home. It’s for families to be able to look at and talk through what’s life gonna look like when dad comes home. ’cause those are things there’s not books on.

[00:47:00] I wrote one called The Threshold, and it’s about the man that’s leaving prison that’s been institutionalized for a long time. What’s it gonna look like when you’ve been institutionalized back in 2002 and now you’re getting out tomorrow? How are you gonna be able to take that in? How are you gonna be able to start with those relationships? How are you gonna integrate to work? How are you gonna integrate back to life?

[00:47:22] But my heaviest piece and my biggest burden has just been for people like myself that serve a lot of people And over time it weighs on you. We carry a lot of weight. Counselors, hosts like yourself, leaders, pastors, families, there’s a lot of weight we carry for the people that we love that are in addiction. But who carries the weight for us? And so that’s where my focus has really been.

[00:47:50] So I started an organization called Redefined Mission. I would love for you to check it out. It’s www.redefinedmission.com. I work with counselors, pastors, the man that’s in recovery that thinks he’s not worth the next shot. I work with the business leaders that are also burned out because they’re at the end of themselves, even if they feel successful, but they’re missing that one thing that’s burned them out, that’s helped them to lose the joy in whatever their purpose is.

[00:48:18] I look at redefined mission like this: we’ve been restored by grace, right? We’re restored by grace, and we’re driven by purpose. My role is to do whatever I can, in any capacity to help people that are just bone dry from all the lifetime investment that they’ve placed into serving others and putting others’ lives first. And in doing so, they have began to grow weary. They begin to wither. I do everything from institutional trainings, for churches and organizations that need to restart, to get their bearings right back, to get their heart priorities back. And help them to see areas of our life that we often don’t care for, because we’re so focused on everything we do.

[00:49:11] I wanted to see how I could do, locally and nationally, but I guess God kinda tugged in on my shoulder to, “Hey, let’s take this thing international as well.” I did not expect it to do what it’s done. But at this time I’ve been able to connect with over 30 different countries, different pastors, gosh, different general secretaries of evangelical alliances, that lead organizations and associations of five and 10 thousands of pastors. There’s so much burden out there for the people that need hope, that the people that are trying to provide the hope are stuck with and they don’t know how to walk through it. My mission now, is for the person rebuilding, for the family finding hope, the pastors, leaders, and counselors that care so much, both here and across the globe.

[00:50:03] Spencer: Thank you , that sounds like, wow, very useful for people.

[00:50:07] I’m almost at my hard stop here, so I’m just gonna say a little bit about what’s going on in my life that my recovery tools are helping me to meet. If you’ve been listening over the past few episodes, you know that my brother is not in a good place medically, and he will be going into hospice soon. He’s got a fatal illness that he has decided, after consulting with his higher power, that whatever treatment they can offer him is not gonna help him live the quality of life that he wants. And it’s gonna take away from the quality of his life, I think, more to the point. So he has made the decision to not do any treatment and to just take it as it comes. Just to stay comfortable as possible while his fate plays out. And, you know, that, that’s not an easy thing to hear.

[00:50:54] Jeffrey: No, sir

[00:50:55] Spencer: But I know that he is doing what he believes is best for him, and my recovery has taught me that I cannot make those decisions for somebody else.

[00:51:05] Jeffrey: It shows us our powerlessness, doesn’t it?

[00:51:07] Spencer: it shows me my powerlessness. I’m living in that right now, and I’m living in uncertainty. That’s what I’m living in right now, and I’m leaning hard onthe support of my higher power to get through this, the best I can.

Upcoming

[00:51:20] Spencer: I want to look forward a little bit in the podcast. we’ll be continuing our series on the Al-Anon traditions, with, Tradition Eight, which says, “Al-Anon 12 Step work should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.” So I’ll be having a conversation with, somebody who wants to step up, about how we see that working in our lives.

[00:51:42] We welcome your thoughts. You can join the conversation. Please leave us a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or your questions.

[00:51:50] You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery dot show. Or you can leave a voice mail at 734-707-8795.

[00:52:01] Jeffrey, if listeners want to contact you, to learn more about your Redefined Mission project, how can they do that?

[00:52:08] Jeffrey: Oh, please, jeffrey@redefinedmission.com. I would love to hear from anybody there that may need anything. if there’s any way we can pray for you, support you, provide any of those resources, just look what we have. there’s something for everyone. And,and you never know how something there may be able to benefit, someone you care about. I would love to have you to be a part of what we’re doing in this world.

Song 2

[00:52:32] Spencer: I see the second song you picked is Fix You, by Coldplay. Of course the message of this song is in many ways the opposite of the loving detachment we’ve been talking about today. I have said that this song must be the unofficial anthem of us pre-Al-Anons!

Listener Feedback

[00:52:55] Spencer: And now it’s time for some listener feedback. Margo writes to us about an early episode, number 14, which was about step three. She writes, “I am newer to Al-Anon and discovered your podcast recently. I’ve been struggling with step three, not sure that I reached step two well enough to turn my life over. This episode helped me immensely. So many of the things you shared were enlightening. The idea of giving things to God’s care, the idea of small steps, not my whole life right out the gate. Listening to my inner voice hear what my higher power is saying, and in the morning, ‘whatever’, in the evening, ‘oh, well.’ Thank you for this episode and the others, but this was what I needed after weeks of struggling with step three.

[00:53:45] Margo.” Well, wow. Thank you, Margo. I am delighted to know that many of the episodes that we created early in the podcast and later in the podcast, people have found significant value in. It’s one of the reasons for keeping them all there. So thanks for writing.

[00:54:08] Judy writes, “Hi, Spencer. Thank you for every episode.

[00:54:12] I appreciate your dedication and hard work. I love listening and sharing with other Al-Anon members. I loved Mary Pearl’s story of desperation to joy in episode 461, but I don’t seem to access it anymore. And when I shared it with another member, it comes up as an error. Please advise. Help. Thank you.”

[00:54:32] Several people have written to me about this. Unfortunately, I do not currently have permission to share that talk in the podcast. I did find a very similar talk on the XA Speakers website. The description of that talk is Mary Pearl T. From Little Rock, Arkansas, speaking at the 70th Old Granddad Conference in Hot Springs, Arkansas, August 20th, 2010. And I will put a link to that in the show notes for this episode, which you can see at the recovery dot show slash 466. I hope to be able to put that back up at some point, but it’s not happening right now, unfortunately.

[00:55:13] Craig writes, “Spencer, thank you for episode 465 with Carolyn. Her story really resonated with me. I’ve been in Al-Anon for over eight years, and I’ve always been attracted to stories from open AA talks. Although I have stopped drinking since coming into Al-Anon, I wonder if I could benefit from the original 12-step program as well. I have to think about attending some AA meetings from the perspective of being in that fellowship as well.

[00:55:39] All the best to you. Thanks again for your service, Craig.”

[00:55:43] Thanks, Craig. I thought that there’d be some other folks like you out there who would connect with Carolyn. It was one of the reasons that when she offered to share her story, I said, “Yes, please.”

[00:55:56] Mary Jo writes, “My Al-Anon sponsor mentioned that there was a podcast with Spencer and his wife about the love languages. She thought it was somewhere in the 320 to 350 episodes, but I cannot find it. Could you let me know which episode it is? Thanks for all you do. It is so wonderful to listen to the episodes, and even better when I’m sitting down and can take notes. Thank you again, Mary Jo.”

[00:56:20] It’s very possible that your sponsor was thinking of episode 294, titled “Spencer and Amy: A Couple in Recovery.” That’s at therecovery.show/294. This is actually reposting a recording we made for a different podcast called Sober Speak, which is an excellent podcast with mostly AA speakers. During that, we might have spoken of love languages, but it wasn’t the actual topic of the episode. It’s also possible that in some episode or other, I talked about attending a workshop on love languages, but I am really not sure which one that would be.

[00:57:01] Sorry I can’t be more helpful. But thanks for writing, Mary Jo, and hopefully you find what you’re looking for there.

[00:57:08] I got some emails in response to the previous unnumbered episode about the death of my brother and my thoughts very shortly after that.

[00:57:20] Judy says, “I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother. Your tribute and remembrance of him was truly heartfelt and impactful. I appreciated how you questioned how well did you know this man who you knew all his life. May memories of him fill your heart and ease your grief, so that there can be space for love and sal- sadness, so that there can be space for love and sadness to be balanced.”

[00:57:45] To all of you who wrote, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for writing.

[00:57:50] Dana wrote, “I’m sorry to hear of your brother’s passing. What a talent he had. His poem, The Poetry God, that you shared was powerful. Heaven to me is an incomprehensible dream because I cannot imagine the love, light, peace, serenity, and happiness there. My humanity limits me. But as Murray said, the poetry God rises from the dead every day. The soul goes on just in a different form, having shed its earthly vessel. What a blessing to have had Murray as a brother and the time you had together. And I’m sure from the other side, he sees your bright light. For the work you do and have done with the recovery show is such a blessing to all of us listening. Thank you, Spencer. I lift you and your family in prayer at this difficult time when there are no words to bring you comfort, so I pray for a peace that passes all understanding. Sincerely, Dana.”

[00:58:40] I think the words that you all say, brings a little bit of peace, a little bit of light. So thank you for them.

[00:58:50] Finola in Ireland writes, “Sorry to hear about your dear brother’s passing, Spencer. Sending love and support to you and your family as a regular listener to your podcast and an occasional communicator. Your brother sounds like another creative soul like you are. Praying you and your family get the support and love you need at this time. Kind regards, Finola,” with a heart.

[00:59:12] Thank you. Thank you, Finola. We were both creative. We kinda had different kinds of creativity. His was more literary and mine was more technical, I guess.

[00:59:25] Fiona, also from Ireland, writes, “Condolences, Spencer, on the passing of your brother. May he rest in peace. How wonderful is the program that gets us to the place that we can just be with our loved ones at the final time of their journey? Regards, Fiona.”

[00:59:40] Thank you. Thank you, Fiona.

[00:59:44] That is all our listener feedback for this episode. See you next time.

Thank you, Jeffrey

[00:59:50] Spencer: Jeffrey, I want to say thank you so much for joining me today, for suggesting this conversation, and for sharing your experience, strength, and hope about,how your family’s and friends’ loving detachment helped you to find your bottom in your recovery.

[01:00:09] Thanks for your time.

[01:00:10] Jeffrey: Thank you, sir. Thank you so much .

Song 3

[01:00:12] Spencer: What is your third song for this episode?

[01:00:15] Jeffrey: Cover Me Up by Jason Isbell, I-S-B-E-L-L

[01:00:20] Spencer: Talk to me a little bit about that song

[01:00:23] Jeffrey: There’s a lot of seeing the need for surrender and acceptance. For someone to know and to see that they need to be covered up in protection, it requires surrender, you know? With the song, I’m able to see seasons in my life for what they are, and know that they’re seasons, but also know that I’m covered. To know that I’m not alone, that I’m supported, and that I’m protected. That helps me to see that recovery’s not all sunshine, right? Just like with your experience at this time. But during those seasons, where do I find my hope and my protection? Where do I lean into that? And what are my next steps to do that?

[01:01:04]

Outro

[01:01:09] Spencer: Thank you for listening, and please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love, and peace grow in you one day at a time.