Intro

[00:00:01] Spencer: The relatives of alcoholics, when gathered together for mutual aid, may call themselves an Al-Anon family group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend. What does this mean to you, for your group, and for your personal life?

[00:00:21] Welcome to episode four hundred fifty-seven of The Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Christine, Lydia, and Susan. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you, Christine, Lydia, and Susan, for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:37] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery

[00:00:54] Ester: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves rather than any 12-step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to your life

[00:01:15] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I'm your host today, and joining me today is Ester. Welcome back to the Recovery Show, Ester

[00:01:21] Ester: Thank you so much, Spencer. Good to be here

Tradition 3

[00:01:23] Spencer: We're gonna be reading from the book How Al-Anon Works, chapter 16, The 12 Traditions. We'll be reading from the section about Tradition Three, which again says, “The relatives of alcoholics when gathered together for mutual aid may call themselves an Al-Anon family group, provided that as a group they have no other affiliation. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend.”

[00:01:48] Could you read the first paragraph for us?

[00:01:52] Ester: Sure. Our goal as a fellowship is clear. We exist for the sole purpose of helping those affected by the family disease of alcoholism. Although we may find other common interests, develop a wonderful social life, and share philosophical views with other members, our only purpose as an organization is to come together for mutual aid, to help each other recover from the effects of another person's drinking. Even if everyone in our group feels strongly about a political cause, charitable function, religious philosophy, or another 12-step program, we cannot afford to affiliate ourselves with any outside cause. The third tradition assures us that the help we have found will continue to be available to anyone who seeks it, without its being diluted or altered by the latest trend or the views of a few members

[00:02:44] Spencer: What I see in here is the importance of why we're here. Many of the traditions and also the concepts of service really speak to our primary purpose. Our primary spiritual aim, I think, is a wording that's used in another tradition.

[00:03:05] That means that in order to stay focused on mutual aid, helping those affected by the family disease of alcoholism, we need to leave aside things that are not relevant to that purpose. Current political situation, what the price of eggs is, whatever it is, those are not relevant to recovery from the family disease of alcoholism. And so we, we leave them outside.

[00:03:33] That doesn't mean, as it says here, we may develop a wonderful social life and share philosophical views with other members. We don't do that in the meeting. We can do that outside the meeting. Because we want Al-Anon to be available to anybody who needs it when they need it, and also to not have somebody who's really seeking help be turned off when they hear an opinion, when they hear about a religion, that they really disagree with, that may even feel harmful to them. We don't wanna send those people away, We want them to be there. We want them to get their recovery. That's my thoughts on this first paragraph

[00:04:20] Ester: I think for me, I think about it for newcomers and how important it is for people who may be isolated in other parts of their life, because they're keeping secrets about alcoholism and the effects on them, that they do have a space where everything else doesn't matter, and they can actually unconditionally get help, for that particular problem that they're seeking help with. I also think about it for myself, as a no longer particularly newcomer because my recovery is contingent on my meetings being about Al-Anon recovery. When other topics come into it, it actually leads to a kind of disturbance for me, even if the people in the room are saying things that I otherwise might fully agree with. I actually still get quite disturbed by things that are not Al-Anon being addressed in the Al-Anon space. I've noticed this about myself, to the point that I may choose not to return to a meeting if it happens repeatedly. So it's been very, very important for me as well. And it doesn't have to do with whether I agree or disagree with somebody else's philosophies or whatever.If it's a group that I'm committed to for myself, and it's just one individual, that can be something that we deal with as a group, through a group conscience or through a business meeting or through private conversations. I think through having meetings on the traditions, a lot of this can be ironed out because people hear what they need to hear out of this.But it is really, really important. We exist for the sole purpose of helping those affected by the family disease of alcoholism.

[00:06:05] Funny story, actually. When I first was doing the steps, and I had the same sponsor as a friend of mine in the program, and we were sort of working the steps in parallel, separately but, telling each other our experience, strength, and hope about it. At one point, she interpreted this tradition as don't have any other affiliations. So that was a really interesting conversation because I have a lot of affiliations. It was interesting because she had taken this to mean put aside or don't engage in or don't have them in your life while you're working the steps.And I thought to myself,if that were the tradition, if that were what it meant to me, I would have been out the door after the first meeting. And probably a lot of other people too. So for me, that's definitely not what it means. She's since talked about this with me and said, “Yeah, that was me doing something about perfectionism and dogmatism that I don't do anymore.” and of course, she now recognizes that's probably not what was meant by that tradition.

[00:07:11] Spencer: Yeah, it does say as a group.

[00:07:14] Ester: Exactly, yeah, as a group.

[00:07:17] Spencer: As a group they have no other affiliation. This also comes into where you meet. You might meet in a hospital, you might meet in a church, you might meet in a school. You might meet in some sort of a recovery club. But the group is not affiliated with the hospital or the church or it shouldn't be. And if it is, then, this basically says you shouldn't be calling yourself an Al-Anon family group. You can call it some kind of recovery, whatever you want, but it's not Al-Anon.

[00:07:46] I used to go to a meeting that met in the basement of the rectory of the St. Francis Catholic Church. I think it might have been called the St. Francis Al-Anon meeting. It should not have been, because that implies that the church somehow has influence over it, and for somebody who perhaps has issues with the Catholic Church, they would not come. I have a friend in program who was very suspicious that most of the Al-Anon meetings in the area meet in churches, and that they were gonna get proselytized or something in the meeting. This tradition, when they heard it, helped them to realize that that was not happening.

[00:08:28] Ester: Absolutely

[00:08:30] Spencer: There's a table card available from Al-Anon's online bookstore. It has a picture of a door with a welcome mat and a bunch of people, looking welcoming, saying, “Come on in.” And then a sign that says, “Let's leave other affiliations outside.” And it's got a stack of boxes labeled things like religion, profession, outside publications, other philosophies, other 12-step programs. And then it says, “Please keep the focus on the Al-Anon program and our steps, traditions, and concepts of service.” At one of my meetings, we put it out on the table every time we meet.

[00:09:03] Ester: One of the meetings I went to had inherited the materials from a old group that was no longer running. We don't even know how old some of those table cards were. They could have been 40 years old for all we knew. One of them had a picture of a hat stand on it, and it had hats that said philosophy, religion, professions, self-help, whatever it was. And it said something like, “Leave other hats at the door.” And I really appreciated that. I do feel that sometimes this tradition is forgotten or not adhered to, especially when it comes to professions. I do notice that people in some meetings that I go to talk very freely about their professions.I don't do that, because the risk with talking about professions for me, which is an affiliation of a kind, is that it can imply hierarchies. And I don't want that in Al-Anon.

[00:09:54] Spencer: I have a friend in program who is a therapist of some sort, and he was invited to give a speaker talk at a meeting. We had a conversation about what should he say about being a therapist, because being a therapist was a big part of his Al-Anon story.

[00:10:13] Ester: Right

[00:10:14] Spencer: I think he might have gotten into therapy because of the effects of growing up in an alcoholic home. When I heard the talk, I think he threaded that, that line pretty well. He didn't leave it out. He only talked about how he was affected and not about how he acted as a therapist with his patients, which would have also probably broken some other principles.

[00:10:38] It's a tricky one, you know?

[00:10:40] Ester: The exception I can think of, and I tried not to be specific in the meeting where I talked about this, but I had to practice my recovery around my profession in a very specific way to my profession. I really wanted to share about it because it was difficult stuff that I was working through.And it was a real, like, step one, I'm powerless over this person I'm supposed to be of service to in my job.and they're not making it easy. I think a couple of times I may have said something about what my profession was, but by and large, I try to leave it out, and I also try not to judge others if they don't leave it out, because part of my recovery is that I'm minding my own business on how I'm working my recovery. I can't control if other people decide to talk about the church that they go to on a Sunday. I'm just not gonna do that myself, but it's fine if they wanna do that.

[00:11:40] Spencer: The other affiliation, I guess you could put it that way, that most of us have is with the person or people whose alcoholism eventually affected us enough that we decided to come to Al-Anon. And there are bits of literature that say we don't talk about the alcoholic. It's really hard for me to tell my story without ever mentioning the alcoholics in my life, you know? So everything's in balance. Something like that.

[00:12:12] The next paragraph from the reading: This tradition refers to the relatives of alcoholics. In this case, relatives designates not only those related by blood, but any of us who have had a relationship of some sort with an alcoholic. Regardless of personal creed, economic status, sexual orientation, or religious background, anyone who has been affected by another's drinking is welcome in our fellowship. There is no other requirement for membership. What does that say to you?

[00:12:43] Ester: That we are here for you, regardless of what other things you're involved with.If you've been affected by somebody else's drinking, you're welcome here.We don't have expectations of you, in terms of how to fit in to this environment. You may hear that we're using a particular type of Al-Anon language, but you don't have to speak that language to be invited into this room which I think can be hard for people to recognize 'cause we're social creatures and we want to adapt and fit in and blend in. That's a hard one, but we really mean it if we're a healthy group.

[00:13:19] Spencer: That's what that means to me. And it doesn't say that groups may set certain standards of behavior, like not crosstalking, which is actually the previous episode to this one, or only sharing once or limiting the amount of time that you speak for. That's not a requirement for membership. That's how we interact with each other in this group.

[00:13:47] Yeah, anyone who's been affected by another's drinking is welcome in our fellowship. The tradition, the wording says relatives of alcoholics. In this paragraph, it says a relationship of some sort with an alcoholic. And then it says, ” Anyone who's been affected by another's drinking.” One of the things that says to me, and I think we get into a little bit more detail a little, later in the reading, you don't have to identify anybody as being an alcoholic. Because sometimes that's a barrier. You know?

[00:14:25] For a long time I did not want to admit that my loved one was an alcoholic. That word had implications for me that I didn't like. And eventually I came around to understanding it better. And also she was calling herself an alcoholic long before I was.

[00:14:40] But been affected by another's drinking, that is wide open and you don't have to pick up that word alcoholic if you don't want to. You just need to say, “Somebody's drinking really affected my life.”and that is the only requirement for membership, like you said.

[00:14:59] Ester: I was thinking about the only requirement phrase, because theoretically there are other institutions that could help people who have been affected by another person's drinking. But they do have other requirements, like that you pay them, for example, or that your insurance pays them. Or that they fulfill requirements that are set out for them by a health ministry or whatever it might be.

[00:15:28] Right now I've had to put a pause to some of my outside help, because I am broke. But being broke doesn't mean I can't show up to Al-Anon. I can still go to all my meetings and just not put coins in the basket or not do an electronic transfer for a few weeks, and nobody's gonna bat an eyelid or question me or say, “Yo, where's your donation?” You know?I can still be there, and that is not usually something that comes up when we think of other affiliations, but it's actually really important for a lot of people who need help with this kind of thing. So I just wanted to give that a bit of a mention

[00:16:10] Spencer: That brings up for me church communities. If you've ever gone to church, you know they're gonna pass a basket and ask for donations, and again, you don't have to put anything in there. But generally , if you wanna be a member, you have to give them some money. And depending on the particular religious organization, it could be a significant amount of money, relative to your income anyway. But Al-Anon doesn't require that.

[00:16:34] No. I've seen someone opt out of attending a religious institution that she had a spiritual connection with and wanted to be able to attend, but just couldn't because you had to get tickets for certain things. First of all, she was, she was bruised, like personally bruised by this. It was like, “I can't believe that because I can't pay for this that I can't go and participate in this congregation,” Yeah

[00:17:05] Ester: and there is a question mark over, like, how spiritual is that if that's a requirement for participation? You do understand that these institutions have to cover costs and all this kind of thing, like I understand that, but that shouldn't be a condition of participation, surely.

[00:17:22] Spencer: I think so. Most of the, maybe all of the meetings that I go to have some wording, something like,Al-Anon has no dues or fees, but we do have expenses. If you can contribute to help us meet our expenses, that is appreciated. And some of them suggest a certain dollar amount, and some of them don't. And some of them say, “If this is your first meeting, let the basket go by. The gifts of Al-Anon are free.” To make it really clear.

[00:17:51] How about this next very short paragraph

[00:17:54] Ester: Yeah. Unlike most other organizations, membership in Al-Anon is strictly a personal matter. We are never asked to sign up, fill out forms, pay initiation fees, or meet another's qualifications for membership. We become members simply by choosing to attend.

[00:18:13] Related to that, I found a quote in the Paths to Recovery section on Tradition Three that stood out to me, which is, “Al-Anon is not for those who need it, but for those who want it.”

[00:18:24] Spencer: Which goes along with this phrase of choosing to attend.

[00:18:28] Ester: Yeah

[00:18:29] Spencer: Again, this is different from just about everything else in your life, right? You don't have to sign up anything. You don't have to pay money.You don't have to meet some other qualification. You just choose to come.

[00:18:45] Most of my meetings have some sort of a phone list. The one that I'm thinking of, at the beginning of every meeting they pass around a clipboard that has a bunch of stuff on it, which includes a place to put down your contact information for the phone list. But what they say about the phone list, and I think this is important, is this is a list of people who are willing to take calls or meet outside of the meeting. And they don't say explicitly, if that's not you, don't put your name on. But it becomes pretty clear.

[00:19:15] Another meeting, we had to have a big discussion in the group conscience about this, that there were people who wanted to be able to be contacted by other members in the meeting, but they didn't wanna take calls. Like, I want a list of everybody who's in the meeting, but I'm not willing to take calls, I just wanna know how to contact people if necessary.

[00:19:42] I wasn't in favor of that, but that's what the group voted to do, and they have an asterisk or something that says, “I'm willing to take calls.” And another thing that says, “I'm willing to be a sponsor.” And it gets a little complicated, but that's what they decided.

[00:19:55] And I'm happy to know how to contact people, especially because this is a hybrid meeting, so if I wanna talk to somebody outside of the meeting, and we're both online, I need a phone number or an email address or something. I don't know. That's just something that happened in that meeting and it kinda surprised me

[00:20:14] Ester: That's really interesting. I've never heard of, like, tiers of different kinds of contacts on a contact list, but I can understand that there are people who have certain preferences around that.

[00:20:25] Spencer: So next paragraph. It is not always easy for newcomers to know whether or not they belong. Many of us had to overcome years of denial before we even suspected that alcoholism existed in our families. All we knew at first was that we identified strongly with the feelings we heard expressed in meetings and that we felt at home. Without having been part of an Al-Anon group, we might never have realized that we had been affected by this disease. Had anyone demanded that we justify our participation in an Al-Anon group, we probably couldn't have done so. Fortunately, it is left for us to decide for ourselves in our own time whether or not we are qualified for membership. Thus, even if they feel uncertain about whether or not they are in the right place, newcomers are always welcome in Al-Anon.

[00:21:17] What is your experience with this?

[00:21:19] Ester: My experience with this is that there are so many different reasons why people find their way to an Al-Anon room. And some of them are not clearly linked with someone in their life who's drinking. I've even seen cases where people are, for want of a better phrase, shopping around for different kinds of self-help. And they're curious about what Al-Anon can offer. I think that's also fine because if it is helping them live a better life, who am I to tell them that it's not for them? A lot of people find out that there are people in their lives who have problems with drinking, and that they're not necessarily aware of it at a conscious level. And the number of times I've heard people say they came to Al-Anon for a year and then realized they had an alcoholic father or something is shocking, actually. It's amazing how common that is. So yeah, I am the one that decides if I'm qualified to be here. Sometimes it's obvious, I have an active drinker that I live with, or sometimes it's less obvious, and I think both are equally valid.

[00:22:23] Spencer: Yeah. I have heard people talk about, “Oh, I discovered my grandfather was an alcoholic,” and the effects of alcoholism can persist through more than one generation. You might not have been consciously aware of or observed the alcoholic behavior in an ancestor, but it still affects you, you know?

[00:22:49] What I have concluded for myself, there was no alcoholism in my family of origin, but I have an uncle and his son who are both self-admitted alcoholics in recovery now. And my mother exhibited a bunch of the behaviors that are attributed to adult children of alcoholics. Where that came from, I actually don't know. There's nobody around anymore who can help me identify that perhaps my grandfather or perhaps some ancestor before him was an alcoholic. But I do see that both alcoholism runs in that family line and that Al-Anonism, if you wanna call it that, runs in my direct line.

[00:23:41] I had a very obvious alcoholic in my immediate vicinity when I came to Al-Anon. But when I started to work through the program and work through the steps and do, in particular, the inventory, it became clear to me that the behaviors that perhaps encouraged me to get into a relationship with an alcoholic, the fixing, the saving, the, you know, those were much more deeply rooted. Those happened well before I married a person who's an alcoholic, you know? I don't have to identify who it was, how it happened. I just have to recognize that it's there.

[00:24:18] When I'm talking with newcomers, and they're like, ” I'm not sure why I'm here, but when you guys talk it feels like you're speaking to me,” I always say, “Then you're in the right place. Keep coming.”

[00:24:32] Ester: I 100% agree with that. I think of my recovery as… The early stages were because I was in a kind of emergency I-need-help mode to deal with the living with an alcoholic effects. So yes, it was very obvious, because I could talk till the cows come home about all the ways that this person's drinking affected me, day to day And then that person went to a 12-step program and found some kind of sobriety. I continued coming and needed help around the other bits of my life that could have continued to be very unmanageable, whether there was an alcoholic in it or not, or an active alcoholic in it or not. For me, that was the step of recovery that ventured beyond the emergency mode. This is the stuff that I can apply to my everyday life. Like I can live a better life and be a person that I am comfortable with living with myself, if I continue to come to Al-Anon, whether there's someone who's actively drinking or not.

[00:25:39] I'm very glad I've done that groundwork. Because the person in my life who found sobriety, stopped going to 12-step meetings. And was dry for a really, really long time. And then a couple of months ago, drank, out of nowhere for the first time in six years. Not around me. It was during travels, which is a very typical time for that stuff to happen. I think it was in an airport waiting for a long layover or whatever, right? The vulnerable time.

[00:26:09] Of course, that's not the only reason I kept coming to Al-Anon, but there was something in the background that I had to be very cognizant of, which is I'm living with someone who has the family disease of alcoholism, who happens to have not been able to drink for a while, but that could change at any time.And because I've been working recovery in a wholesome way, I was okay when that happened.and I didn't get derailed. I didn't think crisis, alarm, siren, emergency. none of that happened. I was sad for the person that happened to because,I know that's not easy when people who have a problem with drinking have been sober for a while or have been dry for a while, and then it happens and they… As my loved one said, “I actually don't know what happened.” ‘Cause I said, “Oh,” “can you think about the thought process?” I was curious. Was there a thought that you can trace back? “Nope, it just happened.” it's an impulse. It's cunning, baffling and powerful. And there's a real deep recognition in there for me that like, yeah, this program is for me.I would keep doing it even if I wasn't living with someone who had this affliction. But it certainly helps me to live with someone who has this affliction. I was really given an opportunity to have that gratitude. This is what this program has done for me. I am now capable of being okay as the script says, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. Tradition three tells me that if I've been affected, I can be here. No matter what point in my life I'm in, no matter whether the person I'm with has been sober for 50 years, it doesn't matter. I can still be here

[00:27:55] Spencer: Absolutely

[00:27:57] We're ready to move on to the last paragraph, I think?

[00:28:00] Ester: Tradition three can also help us in fulfilling our personal goals for recovery. Too often, many of us have felt directionless, easily distracted by the wants and needs of others. We tried to be all things to all people and lost our own identity in the process. We focused so much on everyone else that when asked what activities we truly enjoyed, we were often left speechless. By applying this tradition, we can gain a sense that we belong here and that we deserve to control and guide our own lives

[00:28:33] Spencer: I identify so much with this paragraph.

[00:28:36] Ester: Yeah, me too.

[00:28:37] Spencer: Easily distracted by the wants and needs of others, try to be all things to all people, lost our own identity. What do you like? I used to hate that question. What do you like? What's your favorite something? My classic example now when I'm speaking is, “What's your favorite color?” because if you could see me with my bright purple hair, it would be obvious what my favorite color is.But for a very long time, I wasn't willing to say purple because you might not like purple, and then I would have, offended you or pushed you away or something. I don't know. This is how my brain works when I'm not paying attention. This is my brain on autopilot.

[00:29:26] As I started to work the Al-Anon program, and I think particularly as I was listening in meetings, I started to hear people say things like, “It's okay that I like to go to movies and my husband doesn't, and I go by myself.” Like, really? You can do that? And now I like to go to live music events and my wife doesn't. And I go, because that's what I like. And there are things she likes to do that I'm not wild about, and she goes. And we understand that of each other, I guess also I think that helps.

[00:30:08] By applying this tradition, we can gain a sense that we belong here and that we deserve to control and guide our own lives.The only requirement for me to be me is that I meet my own wants and needs, not somebody else's wants and needs, right?

[00:30:25] Ester: Yeah, I find this one difficult because I also have to coexist with people

[00:30:30] Spencer: True

[00:30:31] Ester: So my own wants and needs are very important, and I do need to prioritize them, and I do need to let it begin with me. I also want to do it in a way that's loving and acknowledges that other people might not be where I am and might not have the same wants and needs as me. And how do I do that in a loving way? Thinking about your example, I used to go out to gigs with my partner when he was an active drinker. He doesn't really like to go to gigs anymore, not very often. Partly because he's a very early morning person, likes to wake up at before the crack of dawn, and really, really appreciates his sleep, which I respect, and would very infrequently compromise that.

[00:31:19] I am more willing to be sleep-deprived for the sake of going to a good gig.So at this point, if I wanna go to a gig, I will give him a heads-ups that I'm going to a gig, rather than ask, because I will assume he doesn't wanna come unless he tells me otherwise. If it's to do with our scheduling, I will consult with him and say, “We don't have anything else going on this evening, do we?” Or whatever. But really, now I'm informing him out of respect for the fact that we live together, but I'm not asking for permission. So that for me is a loving compromise between I am taking care of my own wants and needs, but I'm not just like, disappearing and he's like, “What's going on tonight? Where's my partner?”

[00:32:07] So that's a maybe a little bit of a crude example, but it's one where I want to live this program in a way that helps me also live better with others, because I care about living with others. And for me, the traditions are really where that work in the program has helped, because traditions help me navigate questions about the fact that there may be differences of opinion in one space, and how do I deal with those differences of opinion? Or we need to make a decision that's best for all of us, but maybe it's not best for just one of us. How do we deal with that? So those kinds of questions, I really feel like these traditions are so good at, helping me navigate in a healthy way.

[00:32:49] Spencer: I think it's important to not be distracted by the wants and needs of others, but as you say, to consider, particularly people that we're in a close relationship with. So trivial example, I like pizza. Okay? and I like pizza from a particular food truck. My wife is trying to eat more protein and less carbs And less fat. Pizza is kind of counterindicated in that diet.

[00:33:23] Ester: Yeah.

[00:33:24] Spencer: so we know this about each other, and we compromise. sometimes we get pizza and try to get it with lots of proteinaceous toppings, right? And maybe thin crust. And sometimes not get it. whereas if I was just paying attention to my wants and needs, I'd get it a lot more often. And if I was just paying attention to her wants and needs, we'd never get it, you know?

[00:33:46] Ester: True

[00:33:47] Spencer: I like this tradition. It says how you form a group. It says how you can attend, which is th- there's basically one requirement, and you can self-identify whether that requirement applies to you or not. So I think it's really important

[00:34:07] After a short break, we will continue with our Lives in Recovery, where we talk about how recovery is working in our daily lives.

Song 1

[00:34:15] Spencer: And you came through with music again. Thank you so much, because my mind was all over the place this week. What's your first selection?

[00:34:24] Ester: Our first musical selection, which you can listen to on the website at therecovery.show/457, is The Beatles with With a Little Help From My Friends.most of the lyrics are not directly relevant, but I really… Just the spirit of the song and the part of the chorus that says, “I get by with a little help from my friends, I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends” is, for me, the mutual aid component of this tradition is really relevant to that. And I like that it's a little help. it's a little bit like I'm not fully reliant on the other people in the room. I've also gotta work the recovery myself, right? I'm not like, “These people are everything to me.” I have to do the work. I've gotta work it. But yeah, I just, I like the spirit and the, the feeling and the atmosphere of this song as well for the tradition

[00:35:17]

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:35:23] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently?

[00:35:29] I've got a bunch of shit going on in my life right now, but I'm not gonna talk about that.instead I'm gonna talk about something that happened in a meeting this week. This is a lead meeting. The person who had signed up to do the lead didn't show up, and so the chair just threw it open to somebody who wanted to lead on something. And one of the members spoke up and said, “I want to talk about step five.” And he spoke about getting current, which I had not heard this expression before, being of the generation that I'm in, I guess. I did a quick Google, and I found a recovery-related website. It said, “Getting current is one of the first skills we can gain in recovery. In learning how to share our current reality, we learn how to accept our current situation. Getting current is how we do that.”

[00:36:16] And he went on to talk about there's some things that I have not been talking about. There are some things that I didn't wanna share. He talked about the exact nature of our wrongs, and an understanding that the exact nature of our wrongs is not the details of what we did. It's more the why of doing it. And that really struck me because it gave me a way to think about something that I had not been able to really share about in meetings for a long time. I realized that there was some stuff that happened, like, 10 years ago that it took me a long time to understand what my part in it was. I felt very hurt. Another person felt very hurt. We broke a friendship. It took me, I don't know exactly how long, to really start to understand what was going on in me in that situation

[00:37:18] And then I could see where that had been a pattern in my life. I spoke up and said, “Here is this wrong. The exact nature of my wrong is that such and such.” And I shared on that, and then somebody else spoke up and said, “Oh my God, I do that all the time,” or, “I have done that all the time,” and related some of their experience with that particular character defect, so then me hearing that share, I remembered actually exhibiting that behavior when I was 11 years old.

[00:37:57] Ester: Hmm

[00:37:58] Spencer: And again and again throughout my life. Like, this is a deep-seated thing that I did not recognize in three separate inventories over the course of more than 10 years.and that the sharing in that meeting really clarified it for me, and I know it's gonna be… I'm currently working the steps with a group, and so that will definitely be in my fourth and fifth step this time through.

[00:38:26] And a little bit more on that, because my behavior broke a friendship and I'm no longer connected with this other person in any way, I shared that the only way I can make amends for that behavior is to change the behavior. And that's what steps six, seven do for me. they give me a way to change the behavior.

[00:38:47] It was a deep awakening and insight from a couple of shares in a meeting this week. I'm really happy I was there.

[00:38:55] Ester: That's amazing. that makes me think of openness to learning stuff about me. Even if I've been in a program for my whole life, I'm still trying to stay curious and keep an open mind and listen and learn, and I don't know everything, and I'll never know everything. For me, that's what that speaks to.

[00:39:15] Spencer: Keep peeling that onion.

[00:39:16] Ester: That's it

[00:39:18] Spencer: How about you?

[00:39:20] Ester: For me, the main area I am currently working my recovery is around my family of origin.I work it in everything, but the really big-ticket stuff is my family of origin, because I have a lot of change happening in the dynamic ofmy mother and how she's able to relate to us, and my father and how he's able to relate to us. My brother and I are in a position for the first time of really having to work as a team around this in a way that we haven't so much done before. Just for context, all four of us live in completely different places.and three out of four of us live in different countries. One of the main challenges for me has been not with my father, who's recently had a stroke and been affected physically and cognitively by that afterward, and not with my mother who's just had a dementia diagnosis,but with my brother, who I'm supposed to be a team with in helping them. What does that help look like? And how can I do it without trying to fix? That includes the different way that my brother and I handle stress. I found being in the physical space with my brother when he was initially dealing with some of the challenges of getting help for my dad, and he's the main one who helps my dad, I was activated by my brother's stress because he physically manifests it. He paces, he doesn't finish his thoughts. He tries to deal with 50 different things, but only partially.And I'm sitting there just being like, “I can't keep up with this.”

[00:41:07] I had to do a lot of prayer. I had to engage calls with my sponsor. .. I was planning on going to meetings anyway while I was away, and I have in-person meetings to tap into while I'm there visiting, but I had to really vigilantly work my program. Which included taking time every single day by myself, non-negotiable time, to do some prayer and meditation, to have conscious contact with my higher power, to do whatever daily reader would help me in that moment, and take time away from everybody so that I could be ready to be actually helpful when I'm in that space with everybody.

[00:41:51] What's really beautiful about the fact that I've established that boundary over the years, that's not a new thing, I've gradually established it since being in program, is that my family of origin, who doesn't know I'm in a program of recovery and definitely do not have their own program of recovery, they respect it. They don't question it.If I say, “I'm doing something or other this morning, I'll see you afternoon.I'll see you in a couple of hours, I'm busy right now. This used to be something that, that people would not be particularly happy with, because it's like, “What do you mean you don't wanna spend 24 hours a day being around us?” Now it's, ” Okay, great. See you then.” I always think about the way that the family disease affects the whole family, but any member of the family getting recovery also affects the whole family, and that, for me, is a living example of that. I'm very grateful that, by the end of my trip, my brother and I hit a kind of groove because I maintained my boundaries. I was supportive without jumping in to try to add to the chaos or the manic energy.But I also didn't try and give him any advice that he didn't ask for, which is so foreign in my family, the idea that you wouldn't jump in with every possible solution, in quotation marks. This program's taught me some really helpful, like, rewiring of some of those previously unhelpful habits. And the way that I can coexist with my family of origin now has dramatically shifted as a result of that. So that, for me, is a living way that I can practice this program.

[00:43:42] I also can feel feelings about what's happened with my parents and be sad and take time to be sad and not run away from those feelings. That also is very new for me. But I also don't have to let it consume me. So I've found a much healthier way of dealing with emotion, which is different from what I used to do, which was either not dealing with it at all or being an utter mess. There was no in between.so yeah, this program is, it's really doing some big stuff for me at the moment.

[00:44:19] Spencer: Thank you.

Upcoming

[00:44:21] Spencer: Looking forward in the podcast, topics include Tradition Four, which says Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting another group or Al-Anon or AA as a whole. And I see some clear connections between the conversation we had today and what this tradition maybe implies in some cases.

[00:44:42] We welcome your thoughts. You can join our conversation. Please leave a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or your questions. And Ester, how can people do that?

[00:44:54] Ester: You can send a voice memo or email to feedback@therecovery.show. Or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at seven three four seven zero seven eight seven nine five. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer.

[00:45:12] We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength, and hope, or your questions about today's topic of tradition three or any of our upcoming topics, including tradition four. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know.

[00:45:26] If you'd like advance notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback@therecovery.show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[00:45:41] And Spencer, where can our listeners find out more about the Recovery Show?

[00:45:45] Spencer: That is our website, therecovery.show, if you hadn't guessed already, where we have all the information about the show, which includes and is mostly notes for each of the episodes. So the notes for this episode are at therecovery.show/457, 457. And in those notes, we'll have links to the things that we read from and referred to. There will be videos for the music that Ester chose, and thank you again for choosing music. And also on the website, there are some links to other recovery podcasts and websites.

[00:46:22] What's our next song?

Song 2

[00:46:24] Ester: We'll take a short break before diving into the mail bag. Our second musical selection, available on the website, is Reach Out I'll Be There by Four Tops.I think that every single lyric in this song is applicable to the help that I get from other members in recovery, and the groupness of our recovery. So an example from the first verse is, “Now, if you feel that you can't go on because all of your hope is gone, and your life is filled with much confusion until happiness is just an illusion, and your world around is crumbling down, darling, reach out for me. I'll be there with the love that will shelter you. I'll be there with the love that will see you through.”

[00:47:04] I love the reaching out part of this. The idea that I can reach out in a healthy and loving way, and I can be reached out to and receive, in fellowship. It's not conditional with whether those people have other affiliations with me. That's the one thing we share is Al-Anon. and the fact that we came in thinking our worlds were crumbling down.

Listener Feedback

[00:47:34] Spencer: Before we get to your contributions, I wanted to let you know that I have uploaded a new version of the flyer for the sponsorship meet and greet. This flyer covers the months of July through December 2026. The meet and greet is on Zoom every third Thursday at 4:30 PM Pacific Time, 7:30 PM Eastern Time. I linked this to the webpage for the sponsorship episode number 454 at therecovery.show/454, and I will also put a link in the show notes for this episode at therecovery.show/457. So if you're interested in sponsorship, not sure how to find a sponsor, especially online, this could be a good resource for you.

[00:48:27] Got an email from Jessica. She writes, Hi there. I was genuinely inspired by your recent post, Embracing Spiritual Growth through Step 11. That was episode number four thirty-eight. Jessica continues, I noticed your point about the transformative power of prayer and meditation in recovery. Your insights on personal experience of step eleven offer practical guidance for those seeking spiritual growth. Keep up the fantastic work. Looking forward to your future pieces. Warm regards, Jessica.

[00:48:58] Well, thanks, Jessica.

[00:49:00] Robbie writes, I'm listening to the crosstalk episode and wanted to share my thoughts on passing a Kleenex to someone during a share.

[00:49:08] When I was about eight, I learned that I'm not supposed to cry. Not sure why. Maybe it will be revealed one day. I still struggle not to stop talking to shut down tears when they start to well. If someone hands me a Kleenex during my share, it disrupts my thoughts, and I'm reminded that I'm not supposed to cry. I think it's okay to shift a box or packet of Kleenex towards someone once their share is done.

[00:49:32] Robbie, she/her, in Jacksonville, Florida.

[00:49:36] And she adds a line from Maya Angelou: “You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have.”

[00:49:45] Thank you, Robbie, for that insight. I would not have thought about that, but I'm sure that there are plenty of people out there who may have that same exact feeling as you do. So thanks for sharing that.

[00:50:00] Martha S. writes, Hi, Spencer and Mary. Loved the show on crosstalk, and we'll definitely have a meeting about it in the fall at our next business meeting. I downloaded the pamphlet from South Africa, and I think it's a great topic to look at as a group. We were aware that crosstalk is not in the conference-approved literature, so our group statement is about respectful communication and that we don't comment or give advice about another's share.

[00:50:24] On the upcoming topic of Tradition Three, I have some ideas. In the tradition, it clearly states the only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend. I know there are many members that believe in singleness of purpose like many AA members believe, as in we should only allow family and friends of alcoholics to attend meetings.

[00:50:45] In this day and age of the prevalence of other drug addictions, I think we really need to address this as a whole entity at the WSO. I understand the historical roots of the program and how the program came to be. I have been to Stepping Stones and love the story of Bill and Lois in the early years.

[00:51:02] Our area, like so many, has struggled to keep our groups going since COVID. We have dwindled from twenty-six groups to nine in our district. I find many people come to Al-Anon because of a family member's outside issues, that's in quotes, and some do not feel they belong because of the heavy focus on the word alcoholic in our CAL.

[00:51:22] We have no Nar-Anon meetings in our district either. We try to reassure newcomers that they are in the right place, but I think many do not return because they feel they don't qualify. I like at the beginning of your episodes how you say, ‘We are friends and families of people with addiction.' This fellowship needs to make some fundamental changes as society changes to keep the program of Al-Anon alive.

[00:51:45] Thanks for the opportunity to share and great job on the podcast. I listen regularly, and it aids in my program. Even an old-timer who's been coming for twenty-two years. Thanks so much.

[00:51:55] Martha S. from the Just for Today Al-Anon Family Group in Port Perry, Canada.

[00:52:01] And she also has a quote from Albert Einstein, “I believe the world is incomprehensibly beautiful,” which is a great saying to just meditate on a little bit. Incomprehensibly beautiful.

[00:52:13] Thank you. Thank you, Martha, for your thoughts. I lean heavily on the words in the reading about tradition three. It is left to us to decide for ourselves, in our own time, whether or not we are qualified for membership. Thus, even if they feel uncertain about whether or not they are in the right place, newcomers are always welcome in Al-Anon.

[00:52:34] On the al-anon.org website, the newcomers FAQ has a question. If I am concerned about someone's drug use, should I attend Al-Anon? It says, Al-Anon family groups have one primary purpose, to help families and friends of alcoholics. However, Al-Anon's 2018 membership survey reported that 35% of Al-Anon members first came to Al-Anon because of a relative or friend's drug problem. The survey also showed that 78% of these members eventually realized that someone's drinking also negatively affected their lives. You are welcome to try an Al-Anon meeting to see if the program is helpful to you. And it also then refers to Nar-Anon. So right there on the Al-Anon website, we have guidance that says that friends and family of drug addicts are welcome in Al-Anon, but they may also find value in Nar-Anon.

[00:53:28] I have had at least one person on from Nar-Anon, and I had a person on from Mar-Anon, which is the Al-Anon equivalent for friends and family of marijuana addicts. So, I broaden the scope here in “The Recovery Show,” and somewhere in these 400 and some odd episodes, there are probably more than the ones that I'm remembering

[00:53:48] Michelle left a comment on episode 446, Navigating Grief in Recovery. She wrote, Thank you, Spencer, for your service. This episode was just what I needed today. Thank you, Cliff, for sharing your experience, strength, and hope. It gave me comfort today in processing my grief in recovery, and thank you for the songs.

[00:54:07] thank You, Michelle.

[00:54:09] Spencer: Anna H left a comment on episode 448, Healthy Boundaries Create Internal Safety. Thank you for your time and sincere share. I enjoy your podcasts. I needed to hear creating boundaries creates a personal internal safety net for me.

[00:54:26] Thank you, Anna. I'm glad we provided some value to you.

[00:54:30] That is the feedback from you for this episode.

Thank you, Ester

[00:54:34] Spencer: Ester, I want to thank you for joining me today for our conversation on Tradition Three and all of your contributions to our conversation.

[00:54:45] Ester: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

[00:54:47] Spencer: And for the music, which by the way, one more song

Song 3

[00:54:51] Ester: One more song. Our last song selection is We Shall Overcome, the Joan Baez version, or cover of the Pete Seeger song, which you can listen to at therecovery.show/457. I felt we needed a little bit of women represented in the song selections, so I decided not to use the Pete Seeger version even though I love it. This is a little bit of a paradoxical choice because it is obviously from a political tradition, but I think these lyrics can be very much applied to Al-Anon and to a spiritual program of recovery. For example, we shall overcome someday. Deep in my heart, I do believe. For me, that's faith. That's,steps two and three, coming to believe in a power greater than myself. We'll walk hand in hand. For me, that's the groupness, again, of our program, the we part of the program, and the traditions. And the truth will make us free. For me, that's certainly true with Al-Anon, working steps four and five. And also, we are not afraid today. So for me, that's about fear and overcoming fear, but also the today part. We're not afraid today. And for me, that's the just for today part. So I really hear recovery in this song, even though that's not necessarily what the purpose of it was.

[00:56:09]

Outro

[00:56:14] Spencer: Thank you for listening, and please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love and peace grow in you one day at a time.