Intro

[00:00:01] Spencer: Why does Al-Anon suggest sponsorship? Why would you want a sponsor? Why would you be a sponsor? And what is a sponsor, anyway?

[00:00:10] Welcome to episode 454 of the Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Bonnie, Michaela, Steve and Roxanne. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you, Bonnie, Michaela, Steve and Roxanne for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:27] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction, understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:45] Patrick: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program. During the show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to your life.

[00:01:06] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today. And joining me today is Patrick. Welcome back to the Recovery Show, Patrick.

[00:01:13] Patrick: Thank you. It's great to be here.

[00:01:16] Spencer: Today we're gonna talk about sponsorship, if you hadn't guessed already. I thought I might start by reading, the sponsorship bookmark, which you can get from Al-Anon, online or hopefully in one of your meetings. I think it's also in the newcomers handout these days. So let me read from this.

[00:01:37] Sponsorship, working together to recover.

[00:01:41] Sponsorship is a confidential relationship between two Al-Anon members who benefit from sharing experience, strength, and hope the intimate details exchanged strengthen the bonds of compassion, acceptance and understanding. This private relationship is focused on the Al-Anon principles. Making a commitment to this special relationship or letting go of the relationship is a personal choice.

[00:02:03] Why don't you read the list of what sponsorship is.

[00:02:06] Patrick: Sponsorship is. A relationship built on equality, anonymity, and trust. An opportunity for growth, both for the sponsee and the sponsor. A benefit at any stage of recovery. A commitment to practice healthy communication, not based on intimidation or demands. It is an agreement to recover and grow together, not just struggle in isolation.

[00:02:33] It is an opportunity for self-discovery, not a teacher pupil relationship. An experience based on unconditional love, not shame or judgment. A spiritual relationship with no strings attached. A one-on-one relationship, not an exclusive club. A bond focused on Al-Anon's four primary ideas. We are powerless over the problem of alcoholism. We can turn our lives over to a power greater than ourselves. We need to change both our attitude and our actions. And we keep Al-Anon's gifts by sharing them with others.

[00:03:12] Spencer: It continues. Sponsors, members who are: Respectful of the anonymity of others. Willing to freely give time to the relationship. Continuing to work on their own recovery. Comfortable to be with encouraging not pushy. Open-minded listeners. Equal partners in recovery. Able to listen without giving advice. A recovery resource for learning how to use the Al-Anon principles.

[00:03:41] It is important to recognize that relationships sometimes change as we grow in Al-Anon. In order to continue growing, it may become necessary to change sponsors. Sponsorship is not a lifelong commitment. Letting go is not a sign of failure.

[00:03:56] And it concludes by telling us that we can find additional information on sponsorship in a couple of Al-Anon pamphlets. One titled Sponsorship. What's it all about? And Service Sponsorship. Working smarter, not harder. Well that's the driest dust intro.

[00:04:13] A listener wrote, a few months ago, with these questions. I have been listening to your podcast and I would love to hear a podcast about finding a sponsor and what sponsorship is all about. I'd love to hear an episode on how to choose a sponsor. What to look for. I personally want someone who doesn't give direct advice, but asks good questions. I'm also curious what sponsorship looks like. I don't have a lot of time to talk on the phone or meet up. What does it look like to have a sponsor? Do they help you walk through the steps? What if you're not ready to go through the steps? What does that time look like? So those are the questions that our listener, Amy posed. I thought we'll start with our own personal experience. that's all we can really share is our own personal experience.

[00:04:58] Correct.

[00:04:59] How did you choose your sponsor or sponsors?

[00:05:03] Patrick: I was going to the same meeting when I first started Al-Anon. And I religiously went to one meeting every week. And in that meeting was the typical 12 people, two of which were guys and the other which were women that were significantly older than me. And I kept hearing this thing about getting a sponsor. So it was a good meeting because I kept hearing that. So I, after about nine months I thought, I'm working the steps and I worked steps one, two, and three. Those are simple, got them outta the way, working myself. Like a good Al-Anon, I was trying to figure out the best way to work step four. And I couldn't figure out the best way to work step four.

[00:05:48] So I asked one of the little old ladies in this meeting, she had some sharings I liked and I said, would you be my sponsor and help me work Step four? And she patted me on the hand and said, Sonny, that's not how we do sponsorship in Al-Anon. Men sponsor men and women sponsor women. So I says, okay. And about that time I found out about a all men's Al-Anon meeting held halfway across town. I went to that meeting and there were 70, 80 guys. It was all Al-Anon. And Larry was the happiest go lucky guy I'd ever met. He was just happy go lucky. So I went to Larry and I said, Larry, I'm having trouble working step four and I like what you got and I would like to get that. That's another thing I had been told is find somebody that has what you want. And so I asked Larry, I said, Larry, I like what you got. Could you help me work step four?

[00:06:48] And he said, why, sure, Patrick, I'll be glad to help you work step four. Just as soon as you and I work steps one, two, and three. And I didn't know what, I didn't know. I didn't know really how powerless I was. Even though I had thought I'd worked step one, I really hadn't worked step one until I worked it with Larry.

[00:07:13] Then we went through step two and I learned a whole lot about higher power. And funny thing, Larry was of a different religious upbringing than me, but he helped me find my new higher power, and that's a whole nother story. But anyway, having Larry as a sponsor really helped me get what he got, which was serenity.

[00:07:39] Spencer: My first sponsor, Similar-ish at the beginning. I, you know, started coming to meetings and, the meeting that I came to first, it's one that I'm still going to, always said in the opening. In this meeting, we encourage sponsorship. I'd been coming for, I don't know, maybe a month, maybe a little longer . And the meeting topic was sponsorship. So everybody talked about having a sponsor, getting a sponsor, how their sponsor helped them. And I thought, okay, I need a sponsor. So I picked the person in the meeting who, when she spoke, I felt like she was telling my story. She was married to an alcoholic, he was in recovery, et cetera, et cetera. So I said, Hey, will you be my sponsor? And she said, normally women don't sponsor men, but okay, we can give it a try. As it happens, very shortly after that, I joined a small step study group where we committed to work through the 12 steps together. That group kind of became my sponsor for the purpose of working the steps. There were a couple people in the group who had been through the steps before, who'd been in program for a while, and were able to share, their experience, strength, and hope with the rest of us who were doing it for the first time. So I didn't use my first sponsor for the steps. I used her for crisis intervention or whatever you wanna call it. One time, I called because my wife had been saying things like, I just don't wanna live anymore. And I called and I said, Hey, what can I do here? I can't control or cure the alcoholism, but this seems a little beyond that. And what I heard was, first, do you know if she has a plan? I said, no, I don't think so. And if she does have a plan, does she have the means to carry that plan out? And if not, then you probably don't have to worry about, and you probably don't have to try to do anything about it.Just be supportive. and,she'll probably, live through it. I was like, oh, okay. That made me feel a little better. And as far as I know, she never really had any thoughts about doing it. She just didn't like life as it was, which for an alcoholic who's in the late stages of her alcoholism is not surprising. I heard a speaker, I've heard several speakers, I'm sure say, there's three phases to alcoholism. First phase is fun. Second phase is fun plus problems. And the third phase, and hopefully last is problems. She was very much in the problems phase of her drinking at that point.So, that was the kind of thing that I would call my sponsor about, but didn't really take advantage of the relationship. Again, this idea of looking for somebody who has what you want or with whom you can relate in your experience, I think is a good starting point for, especially for a first sponsor. And that comes back to this thing like, it's not a permanent relationship, it's not a lifetime commitment. Right.

[00:10:59] Have you had a situation where the person you chose is not a good fit for you or vice versa?

[00:11:06] Patrick: Yeah. In fact, my first sponsor, Larry and I worked together. He led me through the steps and then, he disappeared. We were supposed to meet on a regular basis on a given date and time, and he started not showing up. So I finally said, Larry, I think it's time that I find myself a new sponsor. And he said, you know what? You're perfectly right. So I have the distinction in Atlanta, being the only person that fired Larry. He said, Patrick, you're the only sponsee who's ever fired me, but I needed to be fired and you were right. He has passed away, and gone to the great meeting in the sky, but I've had many sponsors since then. I think I'm on my sixth sponsor now. They've all worked the steps a little bit differently.

[00:11:57] In my men's meeting that I go to now, they have a part of their reading every day where they talk about, and they call 'em temporary sponsors. Who are willing to be a temporary sponsor. I really like that, terminology that, we're not getting married. This is not a lifelong commitment. This is a temporary sponsor that can,do for now. And it may last a lot longer and it may not.

[00:12:23] A lot of times we say that a sponsor relationship benefits both people involved and I have found that to be true. I have found that a lot of times, I will be talking to a sponsee and repeating to him some stuff, some good Al-Anon principles to him for his current situation. And then I find out, oh my gosh, that's something I need to hear. And I will be hearing. My voice telling him what I need to hear.

[00:12:52] So, it really is true that it's beneficial to both people involved. But my last sponsor, we got to that point and I says, I think this time for me to go on, and he says, Patrick, I bless you. It's been great working with you and go forth and I will pray for your success in your next sponsor relationship.

[00:13:14] I have had a couple of times because of relocations. Where I just moved and I realized that long distance sponsorship was not really working for me. Another time a sponsor fired me because, he considered the amount of alcohol that I was consuming, not consistent with his kind of, the way the program should be worked. So I had to find a new sponsor after that. Yeah, I've been fired and we say fired. And it's not really anything dramatic, it's just that we recognize that the relationship has run its course, and it's time to move on.

[00:13:54] Spencer: It's hard. It's not fun. It's not fun to find a new sponsor. But,I realize that sometimes it's just what needs to happen and move on to the next sponsor that I can then grow with. I have a couple of experiences there. One is, after I had been in program for a while, I started being a sponsor and it seemed like many of the guys who asked me to be their sponsor, were dual members. In other words, they were also in AA or NA, one of the addiction programs. I felt like the experience of my current at the time sponsor was not going to be helpful to me as a sponsor of these guys who were working two programs. Were coming to Al-Anon after having been sober for a while. I said to my sponsor, I said, look, I'm gonna find another sponsor who has this experience that, I feel is what I need at the moment. And so I asked another guy if he would sponsor me, somebody significantly younger than me, in fact, who was also I knew, a dual member. He said, sure. And his approach was, okay, we're gonna start over again. I've heard that said like every sponsor wants to walk you through the steps again. We started meeting. He was a grad student, and I guess he graduated, got a job on the other side of the country. At the time, there was no zoom, there was none of that sort of thing. It was all phone calls. It, felt like a three hour time difference was gonna make it difficult, especially with somebody that I was just getting to know. So, I asked another person to be my sponsor, and he said, okay. And then we were never able to set up a time to meet. He was busy. I was busy. So I just let that float for a while. I didn't explicitly fire him. I just, I was sponsored in name only. Obviously that was not a good fit if we couldn't make our schedules match up. Recently, I asked another guy to sponsor me, and we've met a couple of times now. We haven't started into the steps. I don't know if that's what he wants to do. We both got some time in the program at this point.But now I have somebody that when my wife says, go talk to your sponsor, which she does, I can go talk to them. That's the other purpose for having a sponsor. If you're in a relationship with somebody in recovery, they know that sometimes you need, and I remember saying this to somebody outside a meeting who was like totally resistant to this idea of getting a sponsor. I said, what I need is somebody who's not inside my head that I can bounce things off of.At this point in my recovery, that is my primary need for a sponsor.

[00:16:38] Patrick: Can I show my experience about people in both programs?I have two things. One, if somebody comes up to me after a meeting, and they ask me to sponsor 'em. I say, call me and we'll discuss it. 90% of time they never call. If they do call, I ask them, why me? What do I have that you want? And then if they're willing to work the steps, a lot of times they have worked the steps many, many, many times in their other program. I had a sponsor , he said, when an alcoholic comes into a meeting and he's wet, meaning he's either just newly sober or he is not sober. He has to go through a detox before they can start working the steps.

[00:17:26] He says he has a program where when somebody comes new and wants to go through our program, he says they need to go through an emotional detox. And the emotional detox process is he says, we get either the courage to change or that person's favorite daily reader, and we go over five topics and we go through each reading in those topics.

[00:17:53] And those topics are. Detachment, boundaries, expectations, and acceptance. And then the sponsee's choice. And going through those five topics really sets up some foundation work because they've done a lot of work about acceptance. They've done a lot of work about being powerless. But they've not done a lot of work about detachment and boundaries and expectations.

[00:18:23] And going through those has really helped them become, and of course it helps me too, going over those topics, helps them to become emotionally detoxed to where now the Al-Anon approach to the steps. They're able to recognize, this is different. This is not the same going through the steps, now we're approaching it with the detachment boundaries, expectations, and acceptance.

[00:18:55] This has really helped when I have somebody, especially somebody who's been through the steps a gazillion times, and it's just, same thing. Just rinse and do again. So that's something that has really helped mewhen working with somebody that's been through the steps a lot of times

[00:19:14] Spencer: That's a great, process there. I'll have to remember that the next time I pick up a double winner.

[00:19:19] Patrick: I think you'll find that it really impacts them.

[00:19:22] Spencer: A couple of guys, the way I got them as sponsees and, this is perhaps a cautionary tale or perhaps encouragement, I'm not sure which I remember one of them I would hear him sharing in the meeting and he was clearly struggling with his girlfriend's addiction. Was focused on her state. And didn't seem to be really moving forward in recovery. And after a meeting I said, do you have a sponsor? And he said, no. How about you be my sponsor? I was like, yeah, I walked right into that one.

[00:19:59] I had a similar experience with another guy. Maybe I just asked him if he wanted a phone number and he said, sure, and will you be my sponsor. 'cause the guy's coming in from AA, if they've got some solid recovery in AA, they've got a sponsor. They know what sponsorship is all about. and they know that they need one. And so it's a lot easier than those of us who came into the Al-Anon program fresh, as it were, and didn't necessarily understand why we wanna sponsor. Didn't necessarily understand why these steps are helpful. I don't know, there's just this difference in, in focus that I've seen. It's kind of fun.

[00:20:43] Patrick: I've walked into that trap too, where somebody was getting on my nerves and I finally asked him, do you have a sponsor? And he goes, no, would you be my sponsor? And I go, oh, crap.

[00:20:57] Spencer: Yeah, that is basically that first guy. But you know, we had a good connection. We met regularly.We started working him through the steps and I don't remember exactly how far we got before his girlfriend decided to move to Texas and we lost touch.

[00:21:15] I got an email from Catherine. Says, I discovered Al-Anon and ACA recently. I have purchased so many books from both programs and I actually read them. I listen to your podcast and I'm trying to work the steps. I live in a very remote area and to illustrate how remote it is, she says it's a three hour round trip to go to the closest Walmart. Okay,

[00:21:37] that's remote.

[00:21:38] Patrick: that's remote.

[00:21:39] Spencer: There are no local meetings. I can't drive that far for meetings, but I know I need this. I've attended some online meetings, but so far it's been very difficult to connect. I realize today that I really need a sponsor, but I can't figure out how to do this without the option of local meetings.

[00:21:56] So that brings us really to, and I think I've had other people with a similar issue, like how do I find a sponsor when I'm not going to an in-person meeting? How do I find a spOnsor online?

[00:22:11] Patrick: I think there is a similarity that you just have to go to a lot of different meetings. The way I found my sponsors was, I just went to a lot of different meetings and eventually I found somebody that I seem to click with. But, yeah, that's a really tough situation when you're that far away and you don't have that face-to-face.

[00:22:39] I know it's hard in some locations because there's not Al-Anon meetings and sometimes there's not, I hate to say it, there's not good Al-Anon meetings. We say, take what you like and leave the rest. There's been meetings that I just left everything and says, okay, I vote with my feet and next time I'll go somewhere else.

[00:23:01] Spencer: I think at this point I wanna play this voice memo that Amanda sent because she directly addresses this experience she's had of finding sponsorship at online meetings. You said go to lots of meetings and I absolutely thinkthat is critical.

[00:23:20] Let's listen to Amanda's experience here.

[00:23:23] Amanda: Hi, Spencer and Recovery Show Community. I'm listening to the episode Voices 3, 5 3, I think, and someone asked about how to find a sponsor now that we're all on Zoom and I did go through a transition with my sponsors and I have found a new sponsor, on Zoom. And not only that, I've made so many program friends. Not only like connections and people who I can outreach with, but really truly like good friends that I now talk to every day all over the world who I've never met in person because of Zoom. The fact that we can go to meetings all over the world now. So the question of how to connect definitely has come up. Since, in person, there were those moments before and after the meeting, walking outside to the train, getting tea. Walking down the hall to the bathroom. Like those were times for fellowship and more casual talks. Like sometimes people would go to lunch or coffee after the meeting, you know, the meeting after the meeting. But in Zoom, that doesn't super exist. There are meetings where people come early or stay after, but not always.

[00:24:39] I have found that some people put their number or their email in their name. The other thing I have done is when people share and what they say really resonates with me, or I feel really called to them as a person. Not to crosstalk. I really care about that boundary of not really referring or addressing or commenting on someone's share, but sometimes I may chat them privately on Zoom and just say something like, I really appreciate your share. Would you be interested in connecting? Or, you know, no pressure. But if you'd like to connect or get in touch, this is my phone number, this is my email. And just see what happens. It's a good practice in not taking it personally, letting go of the outcome, but also taking a risk and sort of participation as the key to harmony and getting involved.

[00:25:34] And through that I have made quite a few connections, good friends, and I have found my new sponsor by doing that. So I know it can definitely be a weird time and in some ways more isolating because we're not seeing people face to face and in person. But my personal experience, once I've sort of learned how to connect to online, I've actually feel like if anything I'm more connected.

[00:26:01] I, I have more recovery friends and even more people I can call and reach out to than I did before. So that's beautiful and I hope that that helps someone and you know, take what you like and leave the rest.

[00:26:15] Spencer: Thank you, Amanda, for sharing that experience, strength, and hope, because that, like, directly speaks to this other person's question. I love it. that we can do that. First she talks about in person, moments before and after the meeting, times for fellowship.

[00:26:32] In Zoom that's a lot harder. You,you don't go out for coffee after your Zoom meeting, you know. Some meetings have sort of meeting before the meeting, meeting after the meeting, as we used to say. Time built into the Zoom and some don't.one meeting that I went to, the time after the meeting was open for more sharing by people who weren't able to get their share into the regular meeting. But there was not really an opportunity for conversation. She talks about direct messaging, chat privately on Zoom. Asking, you know, would you be interested in connecting?

[00:27:09] So this is another thing, you don't have to start with, Hey, will you be my sponsor? You can start with, Hey, can I call you?

[00:27:19] Patrick: Hmm.

[00:27:21] Spencer: You can say, will you be my temporary sponsor? And I've had that happen and we're still going years later. But doing that in the Zoom, you can't do the face-to-face, walk up to somebody and ask. Some meetings actually lock down the private chat because it distracts from the meeting. But if you find a meeting that you can, I think that's a really good idea.

[00:27:43] What is your experience about making connections with people from online meetings?

[00:27:48] Patrick: I currently go to one online, but it's a hybrid meeting, but I've gone to online meetings, especially during COVID. COVID was a lifesaver,for my recovery because I was in a town that I did not think they did Al-Anon right. I could not find my people in Al-Anon in that town. And then COVID hit and all of a sudden my home group back in Atlanta was online and I was back in heaven because all my peeps that I had before I moved were there.

[00:28:22] Trying to find new people, I've been to a few other online meetings where I only knew one out of 50. It was hard because they already knew each other. When you're a new person coming in, but 50 people already know each other, it's hard to get to know one or two other people that way.

[00:28:44] Spencer: I just wanna say, that's also true in person.

[00:28:47] Patrick: yeah, true. I just like to go to a lot of roundups. I'll go to roundups and conventions and far away places, and then I'll start seeing those people online. And I feel like, you know, I've met them. But yeah, I've not had a lot of good experience meeting people cold online.

[00:29:09] Spencer: it is tough.

[00:29:11] We've talked a little bit about our experience being sponsored, you know, working the steps using the sponsor for crisis intervention, not really crisis necessarily. I could call my sponsor and say, I'm worried about how much ice cream my wife is eating now that she's sober. And I said that to her and she said, call your sponsor. So I called my sponsor and my sponsor said, okay, you've expressed your feelings. Now you have to shut up.

[00:29:39] This happened to me just recently. I observed some behavior in a person close to me that I didn't like. But I didn't feel like I could say anything directly to this person about it. So I went to my sponsor and said, I have to tell on myself. I saw this behavior and I really wanted to jump in. And I didn't, but I need to unload it on somebody. You're it,

[00:30:04] I know my wife calls her sponsor weekly, just to talk about life really. And because they've been in this relationship for years now, they really know each other. That's another thing, whether it's a sponsor or just somebody who you call regularly, after a while they get to know your story. And you don't have to give a whole bunch of backstory before you get to the thing that you're concerned about at the moment.

[00:30:31] Patrick: Right,

[00:30:33] Spencer: And that's can be really helpful, whether I'm the sponsor receiving the call or I'm the sponsee giving the call. You know,

[00:30:40] Patrick: Right.

[00:30:41] Spencer: What does sponsorship look like? How much time is involved? And do you have to work the steps? This is something that our writer, asked. My first, and not really flippant answer, but it sounds like it is, is, well, it depends.

[00:30:59] Patrick: Yes.

[00:31:00] Spencer: and that's where, when somebody says, Hey, will you sponsor me? I say, well, what are you looking for in a sponsor?

[00:31:07] Patrick: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:08] Spencer: what do you want?and I, especially for people where I would be their first time sponsor, I wanna work the steps with you. And that's because that's what did the most for my recovery. So I wanna pass that on, right?

[00:31:28] If it's somebody who's been around and they, you know, switching sponsors or whatever, I might still say, maybe we should go through the steps just to help me get to know you. What I found is, I've been in program for a while and I'm currently going through the steps after 24 years in program, going through it again.I learn new stuff every time. I learn new stuff about myself every time. But it depends.

[00:31:52] How much time is involved. I like to, at the beginning, meet once a week or once every two weeks, but not less often than that. For like an hour. It's good to have a time bound so that neither of us feels like oh, I'm cutting this short. The other person wants to go longer. We're gonna meet for an hour. If we meet for less than an hour, that's okay too. But we're gonna meet for an hour and then that's it.

[00:32:19] I recently had a sponsee who actually lived in another country, speaking of long distance sponsorship. We would meet once a week on Zoom for exactly an hour. And at the end, wherever we were, we're like, okay, this is our time.and that was good for both of us. We both had other things happening in our life that we needed to, but it gave us some structure and I think that was important. And we also had a very specific time that we were meeting, which is, I think for any sponsorship relationship, especially where you're not seeing them in a meeting and saying, oh wait, you got a couple minutes.

[00:32:59] I think having regular set times, for me that has been important. When I was working step four, I had to set aside time in my week. Same time every week, to work on my inventory. That was the only way I could get through it. If I just said, oh, well, you know, I'll do it sometime, sometime is never.

[00:33:23] Patrick: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:24] Spencer: So how much time is involved? I mean, it really depends what you want from the sponsorship relationship. I try to make it clear, as a sponsor, what I expect. And if that doesn't meet up with what you're willing or able to do, you probably need to find a different sponsor.

[00:33:43] Patrick: What are your thoughts on these questions?

[00:33:45] As a sponsor, I like to at least initially set up a set time, usually weekly, that we can talk, especially when we're going through the emotional detox process. but I won't go a full hour, because I just want to hit two or three readings a week and that'll be at least a half an hour usually to get through three readings. That's probably about as much that needs to be churned up for that session. But after we get through the emotional detox kind of thing, then we start working the steps. And again, I'll do weekly readings in whichever reader he asked to go through.

[00:34:29] I have one Sponsee who is very mature. He's done a ton of service. He just calls in once a week and sometimes he doesn't call. He's just checking in. He's detached enough from his qualifier that he just needs to check in. If he needs to, he knows he can call me. ad hoc.

[00:34:52] I've got another sponsee that's is in the middle of some really heavy marital challenges. He calls me once a week and we go through what he's going through and then we talking about his detox stuff. And we could take an hour. So like you said at the beginning, it depends.

[00:35:15] Always keep in mind it's a temporary relationship. It's a temporary relationship that hopefully is benefiting both people involved. And if it's not benefiting both people involved, then I need to let them go, or they need to let me go, find the person that can be of benefit.

[00:35:36] The thing I tell people on why do you wanna sponsor? I say, it's like you go and you see these really fit people and you know that they go to a fitness center, or they go to a gym and you go, oh, I wanna be with those winners. So you go to the gym. But if you just sit in the chair and watch them, they're getting fit, but you're not really getting fit. It takes getting up there and doing the actual work yourself. So going to a meeting and not getting a sponsor is like going to the gym and sitting and watching people. You can get relief from going to a meeting, but you really can't get recovery without going to the gym and getting involved in the gym and having somebody guide me.

[00:36:26] I'm like in a glass container and I have a label on my glass container, but the label's facing outward and I can't read it from inside. I need somebody on the outside who can read my label and lovingly help me get fit in this. So that's my thoughts.

[00:36:47] Spencer: Yeah, I can see another level in the gym metaphor, which is going to the gym, not really knowing how to use the equipment, but doing something. I was a member at Planet Fitness for a while, and they had a circuit. I could just go around the circuit and do the machines in the circuit. I'm sure I did not have the best technique or anything because nobody was spotting me. Nobody was saying,really would work a lot better if you sit in this position and so on, spread your arms out to this, whatever it is.so you can do that and you can make some progress doing that.when I retired, I said, one of the things I wanna focus on is my physical health. I now have more time to do that. So I got a membership at the YMCA, for reasons. But one of those reasons was that they had personal trainers that I could hire. I had a personal trainer for about a year. He helped me to understand, for my goals of things like balance and core strength. He helped me to choose a set of exercises that targeted my goals. I wasn't going for, as the kids these days say, I think they still say it. I wasn't going for swoll. I wasn't going for, huge biceps or six pack abs.

[00:38:15] Also as a late sixties at the time that I started there, he suggested some exercises, specifically focused on balance, which is an issue as we get older, you know.That was very helpful. I sort of equate in this metaphor, getting a trainer that can work with me individually on, my body and my needs. That's like a sponsor for the gym.

[00:38:45]

[00:38:45] Spencer: Okay. We got some shares from listeners. I sent out an email around the end of 2025 saying, Hey, we wanna do an episode on sponsorship. Can you share your experience? I'm gonna start with this email from Jan.

[00:39:00] She says, I've been in the program now for six years. I had been in Al-Anon just over a year, when COVID struck and the online meeting started. I began with my home group online first, and then as many did ventured out into this big wide world of fellowship. I felt I had enough recovery to ask people without feeling rejected. I'm gonna pause here because that's like a key sentence, for, somebody who's just starting out online, that Jan says, I had enough recovery to ask people without feeling rejected and I think that's one of the issues. It's a huge issue.

[00:39:39] She continues, the people I reached out to at the beginning, all online, lived in different parts of the UK. I should note that Jan is apparently in the UK also. I always messaged the person first so they could think about it. I'm sure they would've asked their higher power, and it was for that reason that I did not take any refusals personally. My higher power gave me what I needed when the time was right. I was told by others that they did not wanna sponsor for all sorts of reasons, all of which were valid. Their work, their life, their commitments. My first sponsor was from my home online meeting. I had met just once before at a physical meeting. I didn't know her as she was not a regular there, at that point. I felt she was a loving and warm woman, and I really needed someone to help me with love of myself.

[00:40:28] Again, pausing here. What are you looking for in a sponsor? There's this advice to look for somebody who has what you have, and what Jan saw of this woman is that she was loving and Jan knew that she needed help loving herself. So that was one of the reasons for choosing her.

[00:40:44] Continuing. Through our conversations online, we found out that we had both been born in London quite close to each other, and through working the steps together, which we committed to every week, we learned so much more of each other's lives. She worked the steps using the Paths to Recovery workbook, and we would read through each step, the member's stories, paragraph by paragraph, stopping in between when it brought something up for either of us and discussing it. It was doing the steps this way that we learned of each other's lives. Before that, I didn't know anything about her. Just when I started step four, she became ill and had many stays in hospital. She had many sponsees and we all visited her online and physically. It was amazing to see how her many years of program worked for her, during her stays in hospital. She's now in a care home, and I must admit, I have not seen her for several years.

[00:41:35] Two years ago I asked another lady, again from my home group if she would be my sponsor, and we diligently worked through the 12 steps together. It was a different way with less communication, as we did not meet up weekly and we did not go through each step together using the book. Both of us had busy lives and it worked well with understanding and flexibility. We talked about it and then I would work through each step. We would then arrange meeting and go through it together. Step four required more input and I spoke with others in the program too. I believe Steps four, five, and six brought a real connection with my sponsor, as there is so much trust involved

[00:42:12] I'm gonna stop here for a moment because I feel like one of the reasons for working steps one, two, and three with a new sponsor, before you get to step four, assuming that's what you wanna do with the new sponsor, is to give some time for that trust to develop. If you dive right into step four without having developed trust, it's going to be difficult.

[00:42:36] Patrick: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:38] Spencer: My sponsor has stopped going to meetings because she no longer lives with active addiction, so I am now going to ask someone else. I have someone in mind, again from my home group, also a mother, as I am to my son in active addiction. I'll hand it over to my higher power and know that whether she can or not, it will be exactly what it is meant to be.

[00:42:58] I now sponsor two other people from my home groups. With both sponsees, I asked them to give me a few days to think about it, meditated and spoke to my higher power. At the start, I said to both, if this doesn't work out for them or me, that is okay. I would rather they tell me and get another sponsor because their program of recovery is paramount. And with the help of others in the fellowship, working the steps. I think of a story in the Courage to Change daily reader, having a plan A, B, and C to avoid disappointment.

[00:43:28] I choose to do the steps the way that my first sponsor did. They're both fairly newcomers and I think that reading each step together is where we learn about each other. They then go and work through the questions of each step, and at our weekly meetings, we talk through them. We have formed good relationships. I'm very fortunate with my home groups. We go away to conventions together, get lots of recovery, meet others, and also have lots of fun, usually dancing in the evenings.

[00:43:52] The most important character trait for me in sponsorship is trust. I came into Al-Anon with fear, shame, denial, guilt, and many more self-blaming defects. Being able to trust my sponsor when starting my steps. Being open, honest, and willing is where my healing starts. We are only as sick as our secrets. What I have found with sponsorship is there is no perfect sponsor, and it is okay if someone says no. Some are lucky to find someone they instantly bond with and form a relationship for many years. Mine has come from different people, and I have kept the focus on principles above personalities. We have a fellowship of love and compassion, and sometimes saying no is showing self love.

[00:44:34] I hope that the lady that I ask in the new year is able to be my sponsor, and if she isn't, it wasn't meant to be. We can still be friends. I will see her at my home meetings, conventions, and I know I can call her. One lady I speak to several times a week is not my sponsor. I asked her from the outset and wasn't able to, but we have this beautiful relationship and I believe she's my guardian angel. I have called her on Christmas Day in my despair before. So even though she isn't my sponsor, she is the one I'll most likely call. My recovery has come from this most amazing fellowship in many different forms, and I have discovered that I have not had one sponsor throughout my recovery, but I've had a fellowship that is always there for me. Progress, not perfection. Best Jan

[00:45:17] Man. Jan's got a lot in there. What did you see in there?

[00:45:20] Patrick: Wow. That she is so open. That she knows that trust is so important. That she knows that she can find someone and if the person that she first asked doesn't work out that it's okay. That there will be others. It's not like one person is the perfect person for somebody, it could work out. And then if life happens, then someone else will work out. I like to say my saying that my sponsor one time told me, he said, Patrick, there's going to be one of two situations here. It's either gonna work out, or it's gonna work out . And so if it doesn't work out with one, it'll work out with another. She has such strong self-confidence and confidence in her higher power. Confidence in her higher power is gonna come through no matter what.

[00:46:20] Spencer: That is so true. You wanna read the one from Marci?

[00:46:23] Patrick: Sure. Spencer, I have so much to say about sponsorship that the role my sponsor has played in my recovery and life over the past two years we have been working together. I have about three years in Al-Anon, but have previous recovery experience in OA and ACA. I have had my share of shitty sponsors. When I felt ready to look for a sponsor in Al-Anon, I knew I was going to be picky and I knew I was going to do things differently. I tried many different meetings to expose myself to as many people and potential sponsors as possible. For me, I found a meeting I really liked and felt comfortable in, and that is where I heard my sponsor share.

[00:47:11] I asked her for an initial Zoom call so I could ask some questions and we could see if we were a good fit. I learned that I wanted to interview her and truly do all I could to see if we would work well together or not. I needed us to be on the same page with God, my sexuality, et cetera. I have found the book 12 Step Sponsorship, How it Works by Hamilton B to be extremely helpful in figuring out what to ask potential candidates and how sponsorship works in general.

[00:47:46] The initial talk was good, but I ended up asking for two or three more sessions, to continue asking questions and allow her to ask me questions too. We decided to work together and I'm at the beginning of step four now. In the two years I have known and worked with my sponsor, I have had a promotion at work, dealt with extreme stress in my house and neighborhood, and most recently lost my wife of 23 years to cancer.

[00:48:18] I have also learned to like and to slowly love myself, thanks to how my sponsor talks to me and treats me. I still remember the first time she told me she loved me. I recoiled and I wanted to crawl into a hole and never come out. Thankfully, she kept saying it and little by slow, it soaked in and I started treating myself better and my critical inner voice became less mean and violent.

[00:48:46] Another massive change in my life is that I could never admit that I was wrong, or admit to making a mistake. Now I'm able to reflect on my behavior, and on my own, see where I am wrong and deal with it. It's not always immediately, but it used to take five days and I wouldn't even mean it. So I'm happy with the progress of it taking an hour or two.

[00:49:13] I've lived my whole life being hyper independent and not needing anything from anyone, which means never sharing anything or asking for help from anyone. Another huge benefit of my sponsor relationship is the safety she has created so that I want to tell her things and I do ask for her opinion on things before I make a big decision or even a small decision.

[00:49:40] Thanks for this topic and for reading my email, Marci.

[00:49:45] Spencer: Okay, I tried many different meetings to expose myself to as many people and potential sponsors as possible. I think that just echoes some of the things we've said before. and especially when it comes to online meetings. I will make a link to this book that she talks about. I have not, seen that book before, so I'm gonna have to check it out. And the experience of starting to work with a sponsor and developing trust. Thank you for just laying that out for us, Marci.

[00:50:15] Patrick: I think she was really brave just to write this, to be open, and to say how, she went through this process and how she has now benefited it.

[00:50:26] Spencer: and the benefits are very clearly laid out too. I also wanted to comment about this question of, do I need somebody who's got the same religion as me? Do I need somebody who has the same sexuality as me? For some people that's gonna be important. For other people it's not. We got an email here from Beth, who writes, hi Spencer. I love the topic of sponsorship because I know I can't work this program alone. Believe me, I tried at first.

[00:50:55] Patrick: Amen.

[00:50:56] Spencer: Exactly. My experience with sponsorship is that it has been necessary for me to progress in my program. Tradition one tells us that group unity is dependent upon personal progress. In order for me to support group unity and to be of the most service to my groups, I have to be sponsored. I have sponsees as well, so being sponsored is important to be of the most service to them. I've had several sponsors, but this is the first time I've worked with one that I haven't met in person parentheses yet. Several months ago I found myself suddenly without a sponsor, and for many reasons I didn't wanna work with anyone in my district. I attended an online sponsorship meet and greet.

[00:51:36] Oh, I don't know those things exist. How do you find those?

[00:51:41] Although I didn't find a new sponsor there, I was introduced to some new online meetings. At one of those meetings, my sponsor's name was on the phone list, so I reached out to her. We scheduled a call to talk about how the relationship might work, and then we agreed that we would take some time to pray about it and reconvene. Our respective higher powers were in alignment and we have been working together ever since. I've found that it's not as important as I once thought to work with someone that goes to the same meetings. When my sponsor and I see each other in a couple of online meetings a week. We each also have our own in-person and online meetings we attend separately. I have heard that we bring our solutions to the meetings and our problems to our sponsors.

[00:52:22] Patrick: The way I heard it said. I bring my message to my meeting and my mess to my sponsor.

[00:52:28] Spencer: Beth continues, when we talk, I share with her what I share about in meetings, but I can also share with her where I may have been disturbed outside of meetings and in my daily life. After getting to know each other, we will walk through the steps using Mary Pearl's method. This sponsor, sponsee relationship is different than my previous experiences, and I already noticed how my recovery has benefited. As a result, I've made changes in how I work with my own sponsees to further benefit their recovery. It's about personal progress for the greatest number, right. My sponsor also shared the following thoughts. There are many ways to work the steps, but consistent contact with a sponsor is crucial to whatever method is used, as well as a practice that notes higher powers, fingerprints, and love in daily life without a true connection to a loving higher power, it's my experience that the fourth step is too daunting. that was all from her sponsor. And that's the end of Beth's note.

[00:53:26] Patrick, tell us about this Mary Pearl method of working the steps, since you have experience with that.

[00:53:34] Patrick: I had a sponsor at one point, and he was in the line of Mary Pearl. Mary Pearl is a longtime Al-Anon member. She has a great story. If you go online looking for Al-Anon speakers, you can find her. She's Mary Pearl T. and she has a lineage of sponsees that are very, very, very many. There are many, many, many, many Mary Pearl sponsees. They have a very structured way of working the steps. In fact, whenI had asked my sponsor to work the steps with me, he says, okay, I'm going to send you, the package. He called it the package. It wasuh set of documents about a quarter inch thick that has a lot of questions for each step. And you go through those questions. It's a very good way of getting recovery and it's a very good way of getting connected. I don't sponsor people with the Mary Pearls way. I like my emotional detox way better myself, but that's just personal preference.

[00:54:52] But,I do like this idea of the sponsor meet and greet.

[00:54:57] Spencer: Yeah, I wanna find out more about that. I'd never heard of that. So that's cool. One thing on the Mary Pearl method, I had an email some years back now from somebody who said that was very controversial in, in her district or her area. I don't know exactly what the issue is because I don't know the details. Take what you like and leave the rest.

[00:55:22] Patrick: Did you want to talk about, that we heard that we bring our solutions to meetings and problems to our sponsors?

[00:55:28] Spencer: Yeah. There's a reading for tradition one in the book, How Al-Anon Works, it says our personal agenda may have to take a back seat from time to time. For example, we may be going through a traumatic experience and have an urgent need to talk about it at length in a meeting. But because we are not the only ones who need to discuss what is on our minds, it may be best for all concerned if we limit the length of our sharing. At this point, we are encouraged to find a more appropriate outlet, speaking at length with a sponsor or fellow Al-Anon member.

[00:55:59] In my early experience in Al-Anon, I went to a meeting and I sat at the barefoot table, so-called, because I think the other table was doing step nine, and I knew I was nowhere near step nine in my recovery, and I didn't even want to think about it. Unfortunately at that table, at the Barefoot Table, it was mostly people just complaining about their lives, complaining about the alcoholic situation. I did not find that conducive to improving my state of mind or enhancing my recovery. And I never went back. I find myself just really grateful that the meeting that I fell into has been and continues to be really focused on the message of recovery. Do you have any thoughts on this question?

[00:56:49] Patrick: Just last week I had something that happened and had a miscommunication, but I called my sponsor and we talked it out. I realized not to take things personally, and he helped me recognize I was taking it personally. So, yeah. Love having a sponsor.

[00:57:09] Spencer: I would like you to read this email from David, because it touches on a topic we haven't talked about yet.

[00:57:16] Patrick: Okay.

[00:57:18] I do have experience being and utilizing a service sponsor. If times allow, I'll hope you'll include having a service sponsor, while discussing sponsorship. I can think of two occasions in my Al-Anon time. A. If a person is hesitant to take a service position due to fear of newness of the position or doubt of one's ability, the availability of a service sponsor offers a crutch or aid. It is easy within one's area to see and find people who you admire and can easily reach out to for that role. A seasoned hand, or ear, so to speak. Also, being a service sponsor to a person, very active in service, just to be supportive and acknowledge, appreciate, and recognize the service work they are doing.

[00:58:10] And B, my experience as a service sponsor was also useful when I was a delegate, but especially as an area chair. What do you do and how to handle certain issues or personalities? My personal sponsor, although of assistance, might not have the particular expertise in a certain service role, so a chance to speak with someone who has similar level of experience and experience with that service position for their insight. I found area conferences or regional meetings, I got to know and respect the opinions and thinking of people who were not necessarily in my area and therefore with whom I could speak freely. Thus, being able to address issues or principles and not personalities other than my own.

[00:59:03] For me, in this situation, use of a service sponsor was more for a particular matter, and the frequency of contact would only be once or twice a year. An important and helpful commitment, but not super time consuming. Thanks, David.

[00:59:21] Spencer: I have to say I never heard of service sponsor until I actually got into service. I was at an area assembly, which is where the group representatives in a particular Al-Anon area come together to talk about Al-Anon topics and often to vote on issues facing the area. So for me, my area is called Michigan, but it's really just the lower peninsula of Michigan. The upper peninsula is grouped with Wisconsin, which I know Wisconsinites who feel the upper peninsula of Michigan should be part of Wisconsin, but that's a totally separate issue. One time when I was there, we did a group exercise about service sponsorship. I think some people have a formally recognized service sponsor. As David writes, when he was a delegate, man, there's all kinds of things that you've never done before when you're a delegate. Having somebody who was a previous delegate is probably really helpful. But one of the things that I learned was that there's informal service sponsorship. Helping to guide somebody who's new to a position into it, even if you don't say, I'm being your service sponsor, actually is an act of service sponsorship.

[01:00:34] I took this on myself when I finished my group representative position, and somebody else was starting it, and had some of these questions like, how much work is this gonna be? What do I have to do? What's it involve? And I was able to say, from my experience, this is what it involves, and these are the time commitments. And then, beyond that, I went with this person to their first area assembly. Because walking in cold, not knowing anybody can be a little bit daunting. I hope that having me there made it an easier experience. We had also a two hour drive from where we lived to where the meeting was. So we had just some time to talk, as well, about what was gonna happen.

[01:01:18] What has been your experience in service? Have you utilized a service sponsor?

[01:01:23] Patrick: When I first became a GR I would go to our district's meeting. Each group is a member of a district, and then the districts are members of a area, which is typically a state. Our district had about 15 to 20 groups. We would get together in a restaurant. They had a backroom they let us use. That district representative, beat on our heads every district meeting. If your step sponsor does not have a ton of service, you need a service sponsor. And she would beat that, that you need a service sponsor that has done a ton of service. And in that district, there was another GR who was a guy and he had done a bunch of service.

[01:02:11] He had been to the area assembly a few times, so I asked him to be my service sponsor. And then when we went to assembly, I sat next to him. My first assembly happened to be an election assembly, and I had no clue who to vote for. I had no clue who it is. So I just said, Hey, who do I vote for here? He'd tell me, and I'd write down that name. And then next one would come up and I'd say, who do I vote for here? He'd tell me that. So knowing the personalities, knowing the people, knowing who had done what was a big help for me. And he is still my service sponsor. He has been my service sponsor and has been very invaluable.

[01:02:57] My biggest decision I had to make in service was, I was out of Georgia. I was in an area that I had moved to for lust. That's all I can say. I moved there for lust. And, I left everything behind. After two years, this was my third marriage, my first wife died. My second wife divorced me after 11 months. She divorced me. My third wife divorced me after 22 months. So I'm getting better. I was getting ready to move home back to Georgia. I used to love to go to area election assemblies. I used to love that because you could watch and invariably somebody would stand for a position, out of the blue, nobody would expect. And they said, I don't know why I'm doing this, but my higher power just, and it was fun to watch somebody else get pinged. Until I got pinged

[01:04:00] Spencer: Oh.

[01:04:00] Patrick: And God said, there's a reason why nobody's standing for area treasurer. And I said, no, no, no, God, you don't understand. I'm just here to finish out my term and go back to Georgia. I'm supposed to be going back to Georgia. And I called up my service sponsor and I said, what? And he said, Patrick, sleep on it. If the same things happening tomorrow, then it sounds like God's calling you to stand for area treasurer for a term. He knew me, he knew my background. He knew me through all of those marriages and everything. And, he just said so. But doing that service for another three years, I was able to make significant. changes. I think they, they have benefited from that service and I benefited. it was my time. I tell that it was my time in the desert because God took me to the desert to be in the desert, and so it was definitely a desert experience. So, yes, he's still my service sponsor. Maybe once or twice a year I'll call him up and discuss something in service, now.

[01:05:10] I am now a service sponsor. I'm service sponsor to somebody who is a Sponsee, but he became very active in the area service and I've been doing that for them. It's good to practice. I really got into the concepts of service. That's what really helped me, was doing service. There was a set of tapes. Rick B used to be the executive director and he would go around the country doing workshops on the concepts of service. And they were really good because they showed you how to apply the concepts to our daily lives and not just service. So yes, I've had quite a bit of experience with my service sponsor and he's really helped me out all through my service experience.

[01:05:59] Spencer: I have heard some of those Rick B workshops, and I will make a link to them. That workshop really enhanced my understanding of the concepts. The other thing that I never got into before I got into service was the service manual. There's a lot of good stuff in there. There's some kind ofbureaucratic stuff in there too. If you've been in the program for a while and you wanna understand more about how the program works outside of meetings, studying the concepts of service, and dipping into the service manual, I think is a good way,to get started. I think also stepping up and being a group rep, gets you really into the middle of it.

[01:06:47] Well we've gone all over the place in this episode, but it all connects to sponsorship. I just wanna end with what Beth opened with, I know I can't work this program alone. Believe me, I tried it first.I didn't try going it alone for very long. apparently I knew I needed help and when I reached out for help from a sponsor and other Al-Anon members, it was there and it really accelerated my recovery.

[01:07:19] Patrick: Definitely.

[01:07:20] Spencer: So, to answer the question that I asked at the beginning, why would you want a sponsor? Because it really enhanced my recovery.

Song 1

[01:07:29] Spencer: You brought some music, what you got?

[01:07:31] Patrick: My first music selection, I came up with, an oldie but goodie. The Hollies, He Ain't Heavy, He's My brother. The lyrics are the road is long with many a winding turn and leads us to who knows where. But I am strong, strong enough to carry him. He ain't heavy, he's my brother. To me, when I get a sponsor, he's my brother. I'm not totally dependent upon him, but I know that I can count on him to be there when I need to reason things out, because going through my mind by myself is a dangerous place.

[01:08:12]

Our Lives in Recovery x

[01:08:22] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently.

[01:08:28] Last week I woke up one morning with this pain shooting from my back down into my leg. And I was like, what happened? Where did this come from? For those of you who are curious, yes, this is called sciatica. I looked up the symptoms and I had exactly the symptoms that are described for sciatica. It said, it usually resolves itself in six weeks or less. And I was like, I cannot tolerate six weeks of this.I spent a couple of days basically lying on the couch. Because, sitting was painful. Getting up was painful.One thing that I found that did seem to help was taking a walk. So I did some of that, but then I had to go lie down again.it's slowly getting better. it's not gone. Last Friday evening I went to a concert and so I was sitting in a not super comfortable chair for two and a half hours, something like that. And, that did not help, I will say. And it's not like I could get up and walk around.

[01:09:39] My wife said, you know. You don't have to stay sitting in a meeting. If you need to move, you should get up and move. I was like, yeah, I don't know if I can do that.But my program tells me to take care of myself. This is one of the things that I learned fairly early in Al-Anon. So I just had to put aside a lot of the plans that I had for last week and really just take care of this, you know, and that included taking some medication.The only thing that, that I did not do that might have been helpful is call my doctor. 'cause I'm a guy and I don't call my doctor when I need to. You know, progress not perfection. Right? It's much better now. it's been two and a half weeks. I realized also I've got some kind of muscle or something issue in my right arm and the sciatica was in my right leg and maybe they're related. And that's a scary thought. For that, I think I will make an appointment, to get some diagnosis happening. ‘ cause I want to be able to keep moving. So. Not working it perfectly I guess, but I am still working it. That's all I got this week.

[01:10:54] Patrick: I too am retired. I retired four years ago. When I came back to Atlanta three years ago, I got involved with service, but it's not at the area level. I got involved with service at the intergroup level.In Atlanta we have a intergroup that's a, in Al-Anon speak it's an A-I-S-L-D-C, combined A-I-S-L-D-C. So it's the inter group for the groups, but it's also a literature distribution center that we sell conference approved literature, which we then use the proceeds to do things like public outreach within the Atlanta metro area. We're part of the Georgia area. The Georgia area consists of about 330 meetings, I believe the last count was. And Atlanta, within the metro, there's 10 districts. That is the A-I-S-L-D-C called Metro Atlanta Al-Anon/Alateen Family Groups, Information Service, MAIS. MAIS has been incorporated as a 5 0 1 C3 for longer period than the Georgia area has been incorporated. We are a 5 0 1 C3 and we are a corporation, which means we have a board of trustees. A year ago I got voted in as the board chairperson. Being on the board means I get to be involved with all of the legal aspects of the A-I-S-L-D-C. I'm not in charge of the A-I-S-L-D-C, I'm just, on paper, the person that is accountable for the legal aspects of it. So I get to deal with things like insurance, and the lease.

[01:12:49] We're leasing what used to be a Sunday school room in the basement of a church that we've converted it into a quasi bookstore that people can come on Saturday. It is open and people can browse through conference approved literature and pick up for their groups. And they don't incur any mailing costs.

[01:13:10] Doing that has become practically a full-time job to keep up with it, but especially as full-time as I wanna do in retirement. One of the things I tell people, being in retired means I have unlimited vacation days. I don't have to ask anybody for time off when you're retired. Which is nice. Last year I really took advantage of that. The last 15 months, I had been on 10 cruises and you and I were on one of 'em. Cruising was a lot of fun, except when you have a board meeting and you're in the middle of the Atlantic and your internet drops on your ship.

[01:13:55] We got a thought force going right now, that we're looking at in today's age, do we really need an intergroup? Do we really need to have an office? People can order conference approved literature from WSO. WSO has said they don't wanna be the Amazon of conference approved literature. They'd prefer that we go to our local literature distribution center. But, should the groups really use their seven tradition money to support this office? So we've got a thought force right now that's doing knowledge based decision making doing A-K-B-D-M on this. So I've been busy. And I love it. I love that I can contribute. I feel like this is where God has brought me back to when I came back to Atlanta. He said, Patrick, there is a leadership hole that has your skills written all over it. And I'm going, okay, God, but you gotta be there with me because I can't do this by myself.

[01:14:56]

Upcoming

[01:14:57] Spencer: Looking forward in the podcast, you know, I've been talking about doing a tradition two episode for a long time, but it's really gonna happen. Tradition two says, for our group purpose there is but one authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern. And some questions to consider. What does this mean for your Al-Anon groups? how would you use this tradition in your personal life? We welcome your thoughts. You can join our conversation. Please leave a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or questions. Patrick, how can people do that?

[01:15:33] Patrick: You can send a voice memo or an email to feedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer. We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength, and hope, or your questions about today's topic of sponsorship, or any of our upcoming topics, including tradition two. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know.

[01:16:16] If you would like advanced notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[01:16:32] Spencer, where can our listeners find out more about the recovery show?

[01:16:38] Spencer: Our website, the recovery dot show has all the information about the show. It's the only place that has that information. Which includes notes for each episode. Now that there's 450 some odd episodes, that is the bulk of what's on the website.and each set of show notes includes links to whatever literature we read from, or talked about, and videos for the music that Patrick chose.

Song 2

[01:17:05] Spencer: Speaking of music, what is your second song.

[01:17:09] Patrick: My second selection is You've Got a Friend. It was originally by Carol King, but then James Taylor did a version of it that I really like. The words I really like is when you're down and you're troubled and you need some loving care. Nothing. Nothing going right. Close your eyes and think of me, and soon I'll be there to brighten up even your darkest night. To me, that's what I like having a sponsor for is someone I can call and reason things out with.

[01:17:43]

Listener Feedback

[01:17:51] Spencer: I just got back from the Michigan State Al-Anon Convention yesterday. The forums, the workshops, the speakers were all great, and it was wonderful to meet some of you in person. I look forward to meeting some more of you this summer at the Summerfest 2026 in Eugene, Oregon.

[01:18:08] I got an anonymous letter of thanks for the estrangement episode and asking if I could put the writer in touch with Eric. Another listener wanted to contact Barb, who was my guest for several episodes on boundaries. And I was happy to do so for both listeners.

[01:18:22] If you want to get in touch with one of my guests, I will do my best to make that happen. In the past, I have published some speaker tapes, which I do not have contact info for those speakers, unfortunately.

[01:18:33] Jessica writes,

[01:18:34] Great show on emotional sobriety. Living in more of a rural area, meetings are hard to get to sometimes. This show is a great lifeline for my continued recovery. I have a piece of paper on my fridge that says my recovery has to come first so that everything I love in life doesn't come last.

[01:18:50] Thank you, Jessica.

[01:18:52] And that was episode 453, which is just previous to this one. You can find it at therecovery.show/453, as usual.

[01:19:02] Brenda writes,

[01:19:02] Hi, Spencer, wondering if you've done an episode on crosstalk. How do you handle it in a meeting when crosstalk happens? Do you have any resources on crosstalk and why it isn't allowed? I would be interested in hearing from others how they approach this topic. I'm a faithful listener, appreciate the podcast so much. Thank you for any input, Brenda.

[01:19:20] Well, the episode on Crosstalk is coming. It's the next but one, so it'll be number 456. It'll be a few weeks before it's out.

[01:19:28] Gail wrote,

[01:19:30] Hello, I love your podcast. It's so helpful. Thank you for being there. There are so many levels of alcoholism and effects in our family that have been hurtful, normalized, and/or blamed on other people and other issues. Since listening to the podcast, I now see the connections and how the negative effects have manifested in poor relationship choices, poor relationships with family, poor health, and some hopelessness because the problem is just too big.

[01:19:55] Anyway, the reason I am reaching out today is because I would like to take my awareness achieved through your program and try to learn enough to start to help. Firstly, myself, I guess, but my grandson for sure and maybe my partner, my children, and ultimately my community. I live in the north where there is a high alcoholic consumption history, which has diminished due to legalization of marijuana. And as reported in the news yesterday, the highest per capita consumption of cocaine as evident in the sewage system.

[01:20:22] We have no Al-Anon here. I would love to help the teens because my grandson is 12. I would really appreciate your guidance as to how to start, how to get educated and how to proceed without harm. Thank you, Gail.Thank you for writing, Gail. I would start by looking at the resources that are available at Al-Anon.org. There is literature you can buy, there's a blog that you can read online, and there is a meeting finder for electronic meetings . There's also telephone meetings. I've never used one of the telephone meetings, but they do exist.

[01:20:54] In those meetings, you can start to help yourself and to understand more about the program and also to get in touch with people who may be able to help you with your progress.

[01:21:06] I know that the World Service Office and the World Service Conference of Al-Anon are working to developing online meetings for teens. There are a number of safety issues there and also various legal issues about young people using the internet in some countries. It differs by country, of course, too, so that's an issue.

[01:21:30] Start by helping yourself and then you'll start to see how you can support the people around you and attract them to a program of recovery like we have here. So thanks.

[01:21:42] And thank you all for writing. That's it for today.

Thank you, Patrick

[01:21:45] Spencer: Patrick, I wanna thank you for joining me today for our wide ranging conversation about sponsorship and including some shares from other listeners. Thank you.

[01:21:56] Patrick: Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure to chat with you today.

[01:22:00]

Song 3

[01:22:00] Spencer: Your last song selection is not actually a song, but we will have a video at the recovery dot show slash 4 54.

[01:22:10] Patrick: Yeah. I've struggled to come up with a third song about sponsorship, but I thought I would put something in here that's been major in my experience in sponsorship. And this is a little clip from the movie Animal House andthe main verse in there is, thank you, sir. Can I have another?

[01:22:34] I don't know how many times. I have had to grin when God gave me something that I was not real appreciative of, and all I could say is, thank you, God. Can I have another?

[01:22:46]

Outro

[01:22:51] Spencer: Thank you for listening and please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love and peace growing you one day at a time.