Intro

[00:00:01] Spencer: For our group purpose, there is but one authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern. What does this mean for your recovery group? And how might you apply it to your own personal affairs?

[00:00:16] Welcome to episode 455 of the Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Kelly and Alba. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you Kelly and Alba for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:30] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction, understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:47] Michele: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. We hope that you will find something in our sharing that speaks to your life.

[00:01:08] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today. Joining me today is Michele. Welcome to the Recovery Show, Michele.

[00:01:15] Michele: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

[00:01:17]

Tradition 2

[00:01:17] Spencer: Today we are talking about Al-Anon's second tradition as part of our series on the 12 Traditions. We'll be reading from the book How Al-Anon Works, which is chapter 16, the 12 Traditions. We'll alternately read paragraphs and respond with what it brings up or means for each of us. I'll start.

[00:01:36] Tradition two, again says, for our group purpose, there is, but one authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern. And I'll just say, that's a mouthful.

[00:01:50] The first paragraph says, our enduring strength may lie in the fact that we are a fellowship of equals. No one member, regardless of education, political clout or professional expertise is any more valuable to the fellowship than any other member. We are all experts because of our experience, and we are all beginners because our lives are in a constant state of growth and change. Newcomers are as likely as longtime members to utter words that inspire and inform. So we have no reason to look to any one person or small group of people as authorities.

[00:02:25] What does that say to you?

[00:02:26] Michele: For me, being in a fellowship of equals, first of all, is a beautiful thing. No one's better. No one's wiser or more important or less important than anybody else. I have really learned how to listen in Al-Anon because you have to. You know, when somebody else shares, you have to listen. And that was a really good learning tool for me because I've learned how to use it in my own life as well.

[00:02:48] People tell me now, I'm a very good listener. I used to think about what I was gonna say and you know how I was gonna say it and what could I say that was smart and now I just listen. And that's, I don't know, that's a really good tool I learned here.It's so important for me to pay attention to what other people are saying.

[00:03:07] So that also means for me that I've become able to be really present. And as I told you earlier, I have 15 grandchildren. I have two in Baltimore and one here, they're eight, nine, and five. I had a lot of pain growing up in an alcoholic home and a lot of it was around those ages. So for me to be able to be present with these little girls is so, so healing for me.

[00:03:35] And I learned how to do that here.what a gift.

[00:03:39] So I like being in the present moment. that's about it for now.

[00:03:43] Spencer: Yeah. I feel like I'm a better listener than I used to be, which actually was a pretty lousy listener because I was always in my head instead of in the conversation, I'm more able to be present and not up in my head than I used to be. So, still working on that. But it is important .

[00:04:11] Being in meetings in Al-Anon or working with other people in Al-Anon, sponsees or just friends. Learning to wait until the other person has finished talking, is a skill I did not have.

[00:04:28] Particularly, the meetings that I go to, do not have crosstalk. And also only share once. So that means that I say my, whatever I want to say, share my experience, strength, and hope. And then I shut up. Sometimes I share early in the meeting so that then I'm less inclined to think, oh, I need to say, I need to say such and such. Because I already said it and I can't say it again. So that practice has been really important for me, in lots of other areas in my life, where I have to listen to people. And I have to give them their space and presumably they'll give me my space as well. It gets frustrating sometimes when other people don't do that, and I think that is also feedback for me. Like, yeah, this is why you don't do that,

[00:05:19] Michele: And this is what I used to be like.

[00:05:21] Spencer: And this is what I used to be like. I've mentioned before, I work with High school age teens at my church. And, there are some kids in the current group that are somewhat challenging.there's one kid who gets really frustrated because he feels like the others aren't listening to him. So he gets louder and louder, and he talks loudly over whatever else is going on. And, to some extent, he's not wrong, that they're not listening to him. But at least in part that's because of the way he reacts. It creates this feedback cycle. Last night we had an overnight and I got to sit back and watch the other youth calmly lead him into being somewhat less reactive and less loud. And I thought this is perfect, because he's getting that feedback from his peers, not from me in a position of authority. and I think he noticed that when he did that they were more likely to listen to him.

[00:06:35] Michele: So he learned a very great lesson. Wow.

[00:06:37] Spencer: that's pretty cool,

[00:06:38]

[00:06:38] Michele: I was a high school biology teacher, so I know what it's like to work with teens.

[00:06:42] Spencer: Oh my.

[00:06:42] Michele: Yeah. I loved it. I worked in an inner city school and these kids were just real. They were real and I loved every minute of it. I get what you say when they learn from each other, it's so much more important than learning from me. So we did a lot of group stuff so they could do that. And my Al-Anon certainly worked in my job.

[00:07:03] Spencer: oh yeah, I'm sure. The other thing that stands out for me in this paragraph is, newcomers are as likely as longtime members to utter words that inspire and inform. I've just experienced that over and over. I've been going to meetings for a few years now. What particularly stands out for me is when somebody who's been telling the same story for several times in a row. Not getting out of their pain, I guess. Suddenly you can see. A step of progress in their share and they come out with something that I'm like, Ooh, I need to take that. I need to take that and hold onto that. If I'm not paying attention, I miss that.

[00:07:50] Michele: That's beautiful to watch the transformation. It really is.

[00:07:53] Spencer: Yeah. We have no reason to look to any one person or small group of people as authorities.

[00:07:59] Michele: And that's for me, brings up stuff, because growing up I got a bravado that I was either gonna be better than or less than. I didn't know what equal to meant because it didn't exist for me till I got here. It took me a while to learn, I don't have to be better than these people. I want what they have. And so I listened and learned to them. What a great life lesson. I'm no better than, and I'm no less than. I'm with doctors, lawyers, trash men. My husband was a trash man. We're all equal. We all have something good to say.

[00:08:35] Yesterday I was at a workshop. Oh my gosh, it was unbelievable. The workshop was on wisdom There was a woman who was sharing. She's married to a guy who's like genius level. And she's not. She said she didn't really do well in school and she felt less than. And I'm gonna tell you what, I've heard a lot of stories, and this woman is one of the wisest women I have ever heard. But she felt less than because he has this genius IQ. The feedback that she got from everyone is, there's no reason for you to feel less than because you are very wise. And she learned it in the rooms, as did I. So it's a beautiful thing.

[00:09:22] Spencer: I think that is so true. We have certain ways in our society that we measure the worth of people. Sure, they're valuable measures in the right context, but they're not the only measure. And if we discount people because they don't, they don't have a fancy job, they didn't go to college, whatever, that doesn't mean that they're not very intelligent in some other way. Very capable in some other way. emotional intelligence, for example, is not something that gets taught in school, generally speaking, not, and we don't recognize it, we don't put a number on it. But when I'm with somebody, when I see somebody acting out of their emotional intelligence, I'm like, wow, I can't do that. All right. Could you read the second paragraph?

[00:10:19] Michele: Yep. In fact, we recognize only one authority over our groups and our fellowship as a whole, a loving God of our understanding. We have seen that as individuals we cannot possibly contend with the effects of alcoholism without spiritual help. We turn to the same source of guidance in order to learn how best to work together toward our common goal of recovery. Just as many of us find a power greater than ourselves in the collective wisdom of our Al-Anon group, we seek spiritual guidance for our groups in the same collective wisdom. We call this a group conscience, the voice of the majority of members. We believe it represents the greatest good for the greatest number.

[00:11:00] Spencer: When I first heard that term group conscience, I'm like, what does that mean? The meeting that I started at had a monthly group conscience meeting, and I was like, okay. Conscience, is that likemy conscience tells me what's right and what's wrong. And I guess in some respects that's what it means. It's what's healthy and what's not healthy for the meeting. The opening for that meeting describes the group conscience as a meeting to take care of the health of our meeting, the health of our group. I really appreciate that description. Other meetings, they call it the business meeting, which just doesn't sound interesting at all. I mean yeah, you gotta have some business. Okay, I get it. But the collective wisdom of our group is expressed in the group conscience, and behind that is our collective understanding of our higher powers guiding us. Presumably, to help make good decisions, to help make good choices for the meeting,

[00:12:00] And the voice of the majority of members. I've done a little bit of service in Al-Anon. I was a group representative for a while. I've done some other positions, and as a group representative, one of my duties was to attend the area assembly. We come together a couple times a year to talk about what's going on in Al-Anon as a whole and make decisions that apply to the whole area, such as, budget and that sort of thing. A large portion of that assembly is really about information flowing in both directions, from the world service through those of us there to our individual groups and understanding and opinions flowing through us, from the groups to, the area or to our delegate who then takes it to world service. The first thing that always happens in that meeting is we decide what constitutes what we call substantial unanimity. Recognizing that it is very unlikely that a group of, 50 people is gonna have unanimous decision about anything. Sometimes it happens.but that if it was like half the group plus one that leaves almost half of the people feeling like they weren't listened to, perhaps. Feeling unsatisfied. The usual threshold that we set is two thirds. so if you got 60 people, you'd need 40 Yes votes to pass some resolution. And I always thought that is a spiritual thing to do. We're not just gonna go with the simple majority, we need to have more agreement than just half the people in order to actually make a decision.

[00:13:52] Michele: I just, really appreciate that, every member in Al-Anon, it's a bottom up approach to government. there's nobody in authority. Every person in every meeting has a voice. I was also a group representative, so I went to assembly. And we talk to our groups and we found out what they wanted so that if there was gonna be a vote, we could find out what they wanted to do.

[00:14:16] and I actually had an opportunity a couple of weeks ago, I have a grandson who's in the Navy, and he just bought a home in Virginia Beach. And so whenever I travel, I go to meetings. So I got to go to a meeting at the WSO. And I had all of this, I don't know, expectations, that these people were gonna be like, come down from heaven, whatever. I told everybody in my meetings that I was going, and when I went back there, like, how was it? I said. They're people just like you and me. So it was a lesson in humility. And that's another thing I learned here. The other thing that came up for me in this group conscience, I read a lot of books most days, about 30 of them.

[00:14:56] And one of them is Lois remembers, I'm in the back of it where it talks about their beginnings in AA. And the very first group conscience was Bill Wilson got offered a job at, I forget the name of the place in New York where he got sober. They wanted him to be the resident therapist. So he was gonna get paid to do what he and the other drunks did. And he went back and told them, and they're like, you can't do that. That's gonna really cause a lot of friction and people are gonna be mad that you're getting paid for doing the same thing we're doing. And as a group conscience, he agreed with them and decided not to do it. That was the very first group conscience. I just read that this morning. I always say, God winks at me. I'm doing this today. And I read that this morning.

[00:15:46] In my life, I'll go to my family, where are we gonna go to a restaurant? Or where are we gonna do this? Or how are we gonna do that? And I'll say, let's take a group conscience. And they'll go, what are you talking about man? I'm like, there's six of us. I'm not gonna tell you where to go. Let's see where everybody wants to go. I use everything I learn. I live my program because I always say in meetings, everything in my life that's worthwhile, I learned in the rooms of Al-Anon. So I take it out into my life.

[00:16:17] My family, they know I'm on this podcast today. They're like, what are you gonna do, mom? I'm gonna be on a podcast. I love it. And I've written something. I've turned my will in my life over to the care of God. So I've relinquished control of me as well. Before Al-Anon, I thought, I'm gonna control. I tried to control the alcoholic. you know how futile that is. I tried to control everybody and everything, and it made me crazy, which is what got me here.

[00:16:46] I found the God in my understanding in these rooms. I had a spiritual search before I got here. I I had friends that were Greek Orthodox. I went to Moravian Church, I went to Lutheran Church. I went to Mennonite Church. I went to Jehovah's Witness. And every one of them has something to offer, but they were all exclusive. They excluded somebody or something. And I had this belief of the God of my understanding. Back then I didn't call it that, that he included everybody.

[00:17:15] When I got to these rooms and I heard them talk about the 12 steps and the God of their understanding, I knew I was home. I knew my spiritual search had ended 'cause I found what I was looking for. I got here when I was 32. So by 32 I finally found it. So I knew it was home.

[00:17:35] Spencer: Moving forward in the book, we reach this majority through discussion. In Al-Anon each of us has an equally important voice. As members, we have an obligation to express that voice and to vote according to our convictions, even if we are the only ones who believe that idea. One dissenting person may point out something essential that no one else has considered. We are strengthened by our diversity even when we disagree.

[00:18:04] I have been that dissenting voice at times. I was in assembly once and we were voting on a proposal about how much money to send from the area to the World Service. Around the time after the pandemic more or less, and the World Service was hurting financially. So they brought this proposal that we would send a certain percentage of our excess over the prudent reserve and expenses to World Service. And I just felt that was too small of a number. I felt that this number was coming from an attitude of scarcity, rather than from an attitude of abundance.

[00:18:50] Michele: So this was from your group,

[00:18:51] Spencer: No, this was proposed by the board members, at the state, or maybe it came out of the area world service meeting. I'm not sure. But this was the proposal that was brought to the assembly. So I spoke up and I said, I think we should be giving more. This just feels to me like we are afraid we won't have enough money, and that is not the way that I wanna live my life.I said my piece, I sat down and when we came to the vote, the original proposal passed, but at least I got to say it.and I don't know if I changed anybody's mind or not. It was not a unanimous vote.

[00:19:28] I've also seen it happen in, in meetings in a group conscious in meetings. We had one in one of my meetings recently to talk about what the format of the meeting is going to be for the future. We had been reading through the stories in the book How Al-Anon works, and then sharing, what those stories brought up for us. We got to the end of the stories.

[00:19:51] We said, what are we gonna do next? And a number of proposals came up. There was conversation. A number of different opinions expressed, and we made a decision. I didn't totally agree with the decision, but that was the decision that we made, and so that's what we're doing. And when we get to the end of the time that we've set to do that format, then we'll come back and see what we wanna do next. One of the things I like about that meeting is it's not always the same. I have another meeting I go to, which is a step study group, so every 12 weeks we're back on the same step. Each group has their own group conscience.

[00:20:29] Michele: I love that we all have a voice and they're all equally important. I had a very loud voice when I got here and I learned to tone it down, but I still have a voice and I've really learned to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. That's so important.Because I was a very angry woman when I got here, and I'm just not anymore.

[00:20:53] I get angry at my phone, I get angry at Alexa. I get angry at my tv, but I really, I used to get angry in the car too. I've really calmed down in the car at other drivers as well. so I learned that from this. After I say it too, I can let it go. Like I'm really not attached most of the time to outcomes.

[00:21:16] This is so important. I no longer have to explain myself. I used to have to give you, if I said something, this scenario, that scenario, all the background. And now when I say what I mean, my mind knows when I'm done and I shut up. I also can't tell you how many texts I've written, written, written, written. Then I look at it and go, I don't need that. I don't need that. I don't, and I backspace, backspace, backspace usually left with a few words. So again, anything I know I learned, and this is from a tradition. I am entitled to my own opinion. I get from this as well. And so is everybody else.

[00:22:00] Examples that I have, we struggle in many of our meetings, what to do with newcomers. We used to take out to another room, then there was a newcomer meeting. Now most of the meetings that I attend don't even have a newcomer's welcome. One meeting I attend whenever a newcomer comes, we go to step one.

[00:22:22] But people seem to get really heated about what to do with newcomers. And when I sit back and observe, I really believe a lot of it is because people that aren't far along in their recovery still want to take care of other people. So they wanna make the newcomer just comfortable. Now I do too, but this is Al-Anon, and if they're gonna learn Al-Anon, I have to teach or we have to teach it to them.

[00:22:55] So taking them away into another room and talking to them. I go to a meeting in Texas and that's exactly what they do. They have a room when there's a newcomer, a few people go out and introduce the program to them because, if they come in. I'll never forget my fir, oh, I have to tell you this.

[00:23:15] I chaired my first meeting.

[00:23:17] Spencer: Wait, what?

[00:23:19] Michele: I chaired my first meeting. I went in, I sat down in front of the binder. It was eight o'clock and back then our meeting started at eight o'clock and I just started reading. Yeah. That tells a lot about me.

[00:23:33] Spencer: oh my.

[00:23:34] Michele: I don't know what I did when I got to the newcomers welcome. But anyway, I sit back and observe, I do give my opinion. I actually was a GR to a group that split over this very topic. Because we'd have a business meeting and somebody would wanna do this, and somebody would wanna do that, and we'd vote on it. And then the next meeting somebody would, you know, nobody could ever agree. I don't really know what happened, but the people that disagreed went off and started a meeting somewhere else. You know, it does work if you work it. And actually both of those meetings now are closed. I don't know, maybe it was about the health of the meeting.

[00:24:13] I have something in Paths to Recovery that I outlined. When we all do our share, no one gets burned out. There's a person at one of our meetings that says, if you don't put it down, they can't pick it up. You know, as a GR, if you know your manual, any, office is three years long. We had a treasurer in our one meeting that was treasurer for seven years. He was an ex banker. And so this year I said, when it came up, you're supposed to, transfer your job after three years. Finally, we started just keeping the money in an envelope in the meeting. And then somebody else eventually took it.

[00:24:54] So this tradition, it can mean helping make decisions and speaking up when we believe our traditions are being violated, which is what I just told you that I did. Because I really believe in our program. It's a way of life for me.

[00:25:11] Not everybody knows that. Not everybody is aware of the traditions. Not everybody knows about the handbook. I've actually now put that in my daily readings because I wanna know more. And we can gently inform others when things aren't going the way they, they should. I don't like to use that word either, but. The other line that I always like is we have obedience to the unenforceable. Because we are a fellowship of equals, we can't really enforce. We can't really tell anybody what to do, but we can gently guide newcomers or people that don't know what we do at our meetings. Like you said, you didn't really like it, but you allow them to do what the group conscience decided.

[00:25:57] For sure.

[00:25:57] I don't know how you feel when, I don't know how it happens there, but when you have group conscience, does some people get heated? Do you see like another side of personalities come out?

[00:26:07] Spencer: I definitely see personalities come out.

[00:26:10] Michele: Yeah.

[00:26:11] Ultimately we lead by example, trusting that our higher power will guide us in the right direction. I don't know about you, but my higher power has never steered me wrong.

[00:26:19] Spencer: Yeah, and actually, thank you for bringing in, Paths to Recovery. Because there's a generally more in depth discussion of each of the traditions in that book.

[00:26:30] Michele: I love it. Yep.

[00:26:31] Spencer: Probably too long to read in, in a podcast, be two hours long instead. If you're interested in learning more about these traditions, that is a really good resource.

[00:26:45] You wanna read the next paragraph?

[00:26:46] Michele: Ultimately, our leaders are subject to the will of the many, the will of the group. Their job is to serve, not to dominate; to carry out the decisions made by the group, not to make those decisions themselves.

[00:27:02] When I thought about those two words, leaders, servants, leaders, servants, I don't know that I thought of leaders as servants prior to Al-Anon, but that's exactly what we do when we are in a position of leadership. Everybody at the WSO, they serve Al-Anon. I don't know where else that happens.

[00:27:25] Spencer: I think about the governance structure in my church. It's a congregational structure, meaning that the congregation has the ultimate authority, just as the Al-Anon groups have the ultimate authority in world service. We hire the minister, we can fire the minister. It's not like the minister's appointed by some higher body.But we delegate a lot of authority to him to get stuff done.It's a congregation of about 500 members. So a large part of our minister's job is effectively to be the CEO of the church.But he is subject to the will of the congregation, in that, if we don't like the directions he's going, the decisions that he's making, we can fire him. But he's a leader.He leads us in spiritual directions. But he doesn't govern us, if that makes sense. That's an area in my life where I can see this principle in action. I am pretty sure that I have fellow congregants who don't understand it that way.but that's my understanding. Illuminated by the things that I've learned in Al-Anon.

[00:28:51] Same thing can happen in a group. Anybody who's in a position of leadership in the group, whether that is group representative or treasurer or secretary, or the person who makes sure that we have literature available for sale, if they're not doing their job, we will pick another person to do that job. Conversely, they're not telling us how to run the meeting. It's amazing to me that the Al-Anon groups that I'm familiar with, that they work as well as they do in this non-governmental structure. You know?

[00:29:32] So let's say group representative, right? Because that's the one that looks the most, like a leader I suppose. I understood my job as group representative to be the conduit between the group and the area, the district, the delegate who goes off to the World Service Conference.But that's it. I don't run the meeting, I don't choose the format of the meeting. If we have a speaker, I'm not the one who chooses the speakers. That's not my job. I might look like a leader, but I'm one among many. I have certain jobs to serve. That's it.

[00:30:11] Michele: I give service whenever I can by chairing meetings, telling my story, putting out literate, et cetera. We, Al-Anon members are the heart and soul of the Al-Anon program. And you said that in so many words that there's not really leaders, it's us. So that's, that was it on that one.

[00:30:30] Spencer: Okay.

[00:30:31] When we use this tradition in our personal lives, we learn to consider a loving God as the ultimate authority in all our interactions and in everything we do. We ask our higher power for willingness to seek what is best for everyone concerned instead of for only one or two people. By actively listening with an open mind to everyone and by withholding judgment until we have had an informed discussion, we learn reasonable ways to avoid or resolve conflict. We can look at any responsibilities we have in our lives as opportunities for serving others instead of trying to control them. We don't make decisions for others that are not our responsibility to make, trusting that their higher power is guiding each of them as we are guided.

[00:31:17] Whew. I'm gonna go backwards here from the end of the paragraph. We don't make decisions for others that are not our responsibility to make. I used do that all the time. I would do it, certainly, for the other members of my family. I think the example that I've used before is, we're driving somewhere, and I would decide it's time to stop for lunch and we're gonna stop here. I have learned that it's much better to have an informed discussion about when and where and how. We might actually get a better result than I would've come up with on my own. I remember one time my wife and I were driving between my parents' house and here. We were hungry. We were in a place that was not a large city where you can find lots of options. My wife went on Google and found a place that was not too far off our route, and I was like, oh, it's like taking us off the route and,it's not a fast food and whatever, and, but it seemed like we should try it, and we did. And it was good. And I was glad we did.

[00:32:28] My immediate family now is mostly just me and my wife. That dog makes very few decisions, okay? He has to abide by the decisions we make. This whole question of majority. If there's two of us and we have different opinions, then that's when I need to pause and consider what my higher power might have me do instead of what my ego would have me do.That came up recently in a financial decision. My wife wants to do,a particular thing with some of our money, and I probably wasn't very nice about it. I said, why would you wanna do that? It probably wasn't exactly those words, because it just didn't make sense to me. But then I listened and she said, this is why I wanna do it. This is why I think this is a good idea. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. Just having that pause, having that, let's step back and not just stake our positions, but actually talk through what it would mean for us together, to do that. And it worked. Going back to paragraph two, we turned to the same source of guidance in order to learn how to work together toward our common goal.

[00:33:41] Let's see what else is in here. Listening with an open mind. So I, I did, I had my opinion, but I was able and willing to listen to her opinion, her reasons, and, to take those in and consider them and say, yeah, that makes sense.

[00:33:59] That's what comes to me right now when I look at this paragraph. How about you?

[00:34:03] Michele: I told you I'm going to England. It all started about a month ago, where my son, Jared called me and he said, Ava's going to England. And I was so excited. I said, are you going? He said, yes. I said, am I going? He said, yes. He called me two weeks later and said his other daughter Hayden, who's also a very good volleyball player, has a volleyball tournament in Salt Lake City. So that's where he's going.

[00:34:27] Spencer: oh.

[00:34:27] Michele: And I was like, okay, I just talked to you last night and we were going to England and now you're staying, but pause.

[00:34:38] Okay. And I said, you're just a really good dad, but I'm a really disappointed nana. I had to practice acceptance. And people said, aren't you really? I said, I am disappointed, but look, I raised a really good kid who's a really good father to his daughter.and I let it go. I think I had friends that didn't let it go more than me. But anyway, I just got a phone call yesterday 'cause I told you I am going and we're going. And I told him, I said, you know what? 'cause I told this story at the acceptance workshop yesterday, and I said, you were the topic of my share in the acceptance meeting. And he said, mama. I'm like, it's okay, Jared. I accepted it. I accepted that I couldn't go. It's a gift that I'm going, it's not a given. I have really learned that it's not all about me. It's not only about me. There's a lot of other people. I have 32 people in my family and so I accept things most times and if I don't, I don't have serenity.

[00:35:47] I'm gonna tell you what Spencer, when I got to these meetings and they talked about sanity and serenity and forgiveness, it was like a different language that I knew nothing about, but I knew that I wanted. And all these many years later, now that I've experienced it, I don't like anything that interrupts it. I try and keep it at all costs. That's from my Higher Power. That certainly wasn't done by me.

[00:36:13] Spencer: Yes. and bringing our higher power in helps.

[00:36:16] Well that is tradition two in a nutshell. Well, it's been a little more than a nutshell. It is critical to having effective Al-Anon meetings, but also can be really helpful in the rest of my life.

[00:36:32] Michele: Ditto

[00:36:34] Spencer: We'll take a little break and then we'll come back and talk a little bit about our lives in recovery, about how recovery is working in our daily lives, today.

Song 1

[00:36:44] Spencer: I asked you to pick some music. What is the first one that you brought?

[00:36:48] Michele: This song, it's called, the Real Me by Natalie Grant. I looked it up, it came out in 2005, but it really describes me before and now. So it has some lines. Foolish heart. Looks like we're here again. Same old game of plastic smile, don't let anybody in hiding my heartache. Will this glass house break?

[00:37:10] How much will they take before I'm empty? Do I let it show? Does anybody know? and Al-Anon when in this line, but you see the real me hiding in my skin broken from within, unveil me completely. I'm loosening my grasp. There's no need to mask my frailty. Because you see the real me. And at the end of the song it says, wonderful, beautiful is what you see when you look at me. You're turning the tattered fabric of my life into a perfect tapestry.

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:37:53] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery recently? I had the opportunity this week to really see how the way in which I respond to or react to things going on around me is completely different than it was before I came into program. You know, step 12 talks about a spiritual awakening, and that is part of my spiritual awakening. A friend of mine, who has a difficult life, she doesn't really have enough money to live. she manages to eke out a living, but it's not comfortable.Her physical health is not best, et cetera, just lots of things going on in her life. Her phone had broken and we were gonna go to the phone store to, the service needed to be switched to the new phone. Okay. I went and picked her up on Monday. We went to the phone store. The phone store didn't exist anymore. Still in Google, but very clearly outta business. Paper all over the windows. So we went to the next nearest phone store, which is of course the other side of town.and we got there and they were very friendly and helpful and said, but we can't transfer. The way that we would enable transferring service to your new phone is to send a text message from the new phone to the old phone, but the old phone's broken enough, it won't receive the text message. So, we can't do it that way. We're gonna have to go into your account, and get it authorized through the account.Recently her wallet was stolen and she does not have a current driver's license, so she had no ID that would enable them to do that, and they said we're sorry. We can't do it. So we said, I guess until she can get her driver's license replaced, we need to get a burner phone. So we went to Target, got a phone, got the phone set up. That took a while. Throughout all this, I was calm, not necessarily completely serene, but calm. I was not stressing about it. I'm like, okay, this is the next thing.

[00:40:16] You know, do the next thing. We got the phone all set up. And we're driving back. she says, I burned my hand the other day and it looks like it's getting infected, I really should go to the emergency room. I said, okay, turn around, go to the emergency room, and drop her off. You never know how long that's gonna take. A big hospital, emergency room, sometimes they're busy.I didn't hear anything that night, which was kind of good because it meant I wasn't driving in to take her home in the middle of the night, and didn't hear anything the next day. And I got a call from social worker at the hospital saying,she's really concerned about her cat. She'd like to know if you can go feed the cat. And I'm like, oh yeah, sure, I can do that. throughout all this, I did spend some time just waiting, because communication from somebody in that situation is not perfect. It's not good. It's nowhere near perfect. Like I'm at the mercy of the decisions made by the people in the hospital and,and what my friend thinks might happen, like, maybe I'm getting out this afternoon, may not be what happened. She ended up being in there three days? She obviously needed to go to the emergency room, you know. I fed the cat a couple of nights. I'm kind of amazed that I was able to just be pretty much calm and collected throughout that whole thing.although it did discombobulate me some. I had some things that I wanted to do that I didn't find the energy to do, so I was not unaffected, but I wasn't getting worked up. I wasn't trying to fix things for her. In the past, I would've wanted to, I would've tried to,and I just didn't. I take that as a real gift of recovery, to be able to be in this somewhat chaotic situation and still be serene. Yeah.

[00:42:20] I think that's what I'm gonna talk about this week. How are you experiencing recovery in your life?

[00:42:26] Michele: Well this past week, I usually go to, I go to a lot of meetings. I go to two on Tuesday, two on Wednesday, one on Thursday, one on Saturday, sometimes on Sunday, but that's usually it. So that's 2, 4, 5, 6 meetings. And I love it , but this week I was in Baltimore. I told you I have two granddaughters down there and I saw them last week.

[00:42:46] And so I went down there on Easter because my big family party here is on the Saturday before Easter. So I went to Baltimore on Sunday, went out to eat with their family. And I just have a wonderful time 'cause as I said before, I'm able to be present. My son, who lives there, his wife has a very big Filipino family.

[00:43:07] And so we went out to eat on Sunday night with them. And then I was there 'cause, my son and daughter-in-law both had off of work. We went to the Baltimore Aquarium, which was very nice. But then Tuesday they both went into work. So I actually felt my granddaughter had a sore throat and I thought I was getting a sore throat. And I'm gonna tell you what I had so much to do for the rest of the week. I thought, there's no way I'm gonna be able to survive a strep throat, so I'm gonna go have it checked.

[00:43:34] So I did urgent care, long wait. But I found I didn't have COVID. I didn't have strep and I didn't have the flu, so that was a good thing.Anyway, I had to come home Wednesday because on Thursday I had a church trip with my brother and sister-in-law. So I went to my Wednesday night meeting, which is always really good. It was a lot of people there. Thursday I went on a church trip to see uh ventriloquist in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, who was absolutely phenomenal. I laughed for an hour and a half. He picked on my brother who's bald, and it was just, I just had a great time. And then that night, I went with a sponsee to see, we have a local community college and they have a performing arts center. We had Parsons Dance Group there that I got tickets for. And so we went, that was phenomenal. Friday I had my taxes done and I had a birthday party Friday night. So I had a lot to do. And as you said, I just kind of roll with it. And I enjoy every minute.

[00:44:41] Some days I have nothing to do. And this week I had a lot to do. And then even though I didn't have all my meetings, my friend and I have started to take road trips, not only to meetings, but we took, it was about an hour away. We went to a workshop. I told you about the workshop. it was supposed to be on the Serenity Prayer, but I didn't actually go to the meeting that was about the Serenity Prayer.

[00:45:03] And I'm gonna tell you Spencer, when I'm sitting there, we got there, we had to get up early. So I think we got on the road by seven 15. We got there at eight 30 and they had a lot of food. And I'm sitting there and there's a room of, I'm gonna say at least a hundred people, probably more. And I just sat there and looked at the love in that room.

[00:45:22] People were greeting each other and smiling and talking and hugging. And I just said, where else can you go and see and feel this kind of love? And so that was yesterday. And then we went out to a diner and then here I am today and this week I'm. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be home, so I'll go to my regular meetings, because that's what I do to maintain this serenity and this peace and my, my, relationship with my higher power, who leads my life.

[00:45:54] So yeah, that's me and my life.

Upcoming

[00:45:57] Spencer: Looking forward in the podcast, I think our next episode actually is on tradition three, which states the relatives of alcoholics when gathered together for mutual aid may call themselves an Al-Anon family group, provided that as a group, they have no other affiliation. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend. And we welcome your thoughts. You can join our conversation. Some questions that you might think about is how does your group observe this tradition? How do you welcome others affected by this family disease of alcoholism? And how might this apply in your life outside of your Al-Anon groups? Please leave us a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or questions. And Michele, how can people send us feedback?

[00:46:50] Michele: You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery dot. Show or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer. We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength and hope, or your question questions about today's topic of tradition two or any of our upcoming topics, including tradition three.

[00:47:24] If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know if you would like advanced notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic. You can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery Show, the recovery dot show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[00:47:46] Spencer, where can our listeners find out more about the recovery show?

[00:47:50] Spencer: That would be our website, which is the recovery dot show, and we have all the information about the show. This is mostly notes for each episode. Within those notes, you'll find links to the books that we read from, videos for the music that Michele chose. And also there we have links to some other recovery podcasts and websites.

Song 2

[00:48:13] Spencer: I asked you to choose songs that were meaningful in your recovery. What is the second one that you chose for us?

[00:48:20] Michele: You Raised Me Up by Josh Groban and obviously this is about a higher power. This beautiful song is what my higher power means to me when I'm down and my soul is weary and troubles come and my heart burden be that I'm still and wait there in the silence until he comes and sits a while with me. He raises me up so I can stand on mountains to walk on stormy seas. I am strong when I am on your shoulders. You raise me up to more than I can be.

[00:48:52]

Listener Feedback

[00:49:01] Spencer: I love hearing from you, I want to start with a voice memo from Renae, who reminds me why we're here.

[00:49:11] Renae: Hello. My name is Renae. I just wanted to leave a message for you to let you know that my worst fears came true this evening, when I came home and found my husband unresponsive, and he did not survive. It was later in the evening, and I sent text messages to some of my meeting peers, and it w- it was late, so I wasn't able to talk to anybody.

[00:49:44] It's really late now, and I have kinda scrolled through some of the episodes, and I'm listening to one on loss, and I'm going to listen to another one on loss. Right now, nothing is going to take the pain away. But having these episodes to listen to in the middle of the night when I don't have anybody available to contact is a huge help, and I just wanna say thank you

[00:50:23] Spencer: Renae, thank you for sharing that. That is so painful. Thank you. I did respond to Renae's email with some of the episodes that talk about grief. There's episode 446, Navigating Grief and Recovery, episode 429, Grief and Relief, episode 386, Loss and Grief, and episode 293, Lynne, Grief Can Be a Wonderful Thing. If you go to the website at therecovery.show, go to the search page or the search box and type in grief, there are many more that it finds. It's a not uncommon topic

[00:51:06] Mary writes, Being a caretaker without becoming completely controlling is a topic that has come up in my group. I was wondering if you have covered this in any of your podcasts or would consider it as a topic for one of your shows. This may seem relevant only to older people in Al-Anon, yet I feel it is something that one of us at any age can find ourselves struggling with, as we take care of loved ones, particularly if that loved one is a person's qualifier.

[00:51:35] I've done a little searching on the web and haven't come up with any references to caretaking in Al-Anon. Hearing other people's experience, strength, and hope on applying their program in these situations would be so helpful.

[00:51:48] I'm grateful for your podcast. It has been so helpful as I've traveled the road of recovery. Thanks, Mary V. in Saratoga, New York.

[00:51:56] Thank you for that topic idea, Mary. I note that in Courage to Change, there is one reading in index with the topic caretaking. That speaks of the way in which some of us can basically give up ourselves to take care of somebody else, which is not exactly what Mary's asking about, is it? If you have thoughts on this topic, drop an email to feedback@therecovery.show. Send a voice memo to the same, or call our phone number seven three four seven zero seven eight seven nine five.

[00:52:34] Kristen writes, Hi, future The Recovery Show team. I say future because I just found your podcast through AI in 2026. I am finally, after over 20 years, coming to acceptance of my husband's marijuana use and how it affects me. AI helped me to find Mar-anon meetings online and your podcast, and I have been listening to about three to five podcasts a week since my recovery started a few months ago.

[00:53:02] I started at show number one, and I just finished at number 36 from August 13th, 2013, this evening while on a walk. So it has been a bit of time travel to listen to you in 2012, 2013 while I'm in 2026. In today's episode, Spencer said the date, in case anyone is listening in the far future, and I thought, I am.

[00:53:24] What a gift you all have been and will continue to be. I see you are on episode 400-something now. I find peace knowing that I have so many episodes to help me through this difficult time. The podcast has been so very helpful to me as I begin this long, difficult journey. I have found sincere companionship and comfort in listening to and learning from Spencer, Kelly, and Swetha. I don't wanna jump ahead and see if you are all still hosting, but if you are, I wish you all the best and thank you for your continued dedication to sharing your stories. Grateful in New Jersey.

[00:53:55] Thanks for writing, Kristen. You know, there's a reason that all of the episodes are still available for anybody to listen to. Because of people like you. Although show number one, I'm not proud of the audio quality for show number one because we recorded that just sitting around my laptop in a conference room. But I think the content was still good. The message was still there. And that's one of the reasons it's still there.

[00:54:26] I did write back to Kristen and say just a little spoiler alert here, that Kelly and Swetha did leave the show around the end of 2013. But I'm still doing it, 400 and some odd episodes later. And with emails like this, it encourages me to keep on doing it.

[00:54:44] Thanks for writing. That's what we got this week. Talk to you again soon.

Thank you, Michele

[00:54:52] Spencer: Michele, thank you for joining me today to talk about tradition two, which is, I think, really important in having a healthy Al-Anon group.

[00:55:04] Michele: It was my honor and pleasure to be here with you today.

[00:55:07] Spencer: Thank you.

Song 3

[00:55:10] Spencer: And what is the last song that you chose, which, by the way, all of the songs will be available at therecovery.show slash 4 55.

[00:55:19] Michele: This one is because you loved me by Celine Dion, and while it's a love song meant for another person, this is because the people in the rooms loved me. This song is about how I feel about what my higher power has done for me. For all the times you stood by me for all the truth that you made me see, for all the joy you brought to my life, for all the wrong that you made, right for every dream you made come true for all the love I found in you.

[00:55:49] You're the one who held me up and never let me fall. You're the one who saw me through it all. You were my strength when I was weak. You were my voice. When I couldn't speak, you were my eyes. When I couldn't see you saw the best there was in me. Lifted me up. When I couldn't reach you gave me faith. I'm everything I am because you loved me.

[00:56:11] You gave me wings and made me fly. I lost my faith. You gave it back to me. You said no star was out of reach. I am blessed because I am loved by you. You were always there for me. Light in the dark, shining your light into my life. You've been my inspiration through the lies. You were the truth. My world is a better place because of you.

[00:56:35] And all those words are so true about what my higher power and the people in the rooms have done for me. But this song is even more meaningful for me because it's a song my son chose for us to dance to at his wedding.

[00:56:48] Spencer: Oh, wonderful.

[00:56:50]

Outro

[00:56:55] Spencer: Thank you for listening. Please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you're facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode. May understanding, love and peace grow in you one day at a time.