Note: the transcript is automatically generated and lightly edited, so may contain errors.

Intro

[00:00:00] Spencer: What does it mean to take a searching and fearless moral inventory?

[00:00:04] Welcome to episode 420 of The Recovery Show. This episode is brought to you by Nancy, Roberta, Gretchen, June, Joanna, and Maureen. They used the donation button on our website. Thank you, Nancy, Roberta, Gretchen, June, Joanna, and Maureen for your generous contributions. This episode is for you.

[00:00:26] We are friends and family members of alcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness. We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can. So much depends on our own attitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

[00:00:42] Eric: Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves, rather than any 12 step program. During this show, we will share our own experiences. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like, and leave the rest. We hope that you'll find something in our sharing that speaks to your life.

[00:01:02] Spencer: My name is Spencer. I am your host today, and joining me today is Eric. Welcome back to The Recovery Show for the, I don't know how many eth time, Eric?

[00:01:12] Eric: As we've said, uh, forty some odd,

[00:01:16] Spencer: Is it really that many? Wow.

[00:01:19] Eric: and some much odder than others.

[00:01:22] Spencer: Hopefully this one's not going to be too odd.

Our discussion

[00:01:25] Spencer: We're going to be talking about step four today, exploring our understanding and experience with step four, following the reading about step four from the book, How Al Anon Works. As a reminder, step four says, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

[00:01:44] First paragraph from the book. Many of us can readily provide an impressive list of the admirable qualities of our friends and loved ones, but when called upon to list our own positive qualities, we may find it difficult to name even a few. One of alcoholism's effects is to lower our self esteem, creating the illusion that others are valuable and praiseworthy while we are deficient. One of the most important functions of step four is to allow us the opportunity to discover that we ourselves possess those same fine qualities we so admire in others.

[00:02:19] What's interesting to me that they start with this paragraph, because this is not what I would first think of when faced with this direction to make a searching and fearless moral inventory.

[00:02:32] I would not start by thinking of my positive qualities or the way that I can maybe list positive qualities of others, but that it's difficult for me to do it for myself. But in fact, yeah, That was absolutely true.

[00:02:46] It was easier for me to turn on the butt kicking machine, wherein I'm kicking my own, of course. than it was to say, yeah, Spencer, you're really good at this and that and the other. I think the sentence here about the effect of alcoholism to lower our self esteem, is also true because certainly when I came into the program, I was feeling pretty shitty about myself because I had been unable to fix the alcoholism in my loved one, you know?

[00:03:22] I guess the other thing that I want to say about this paragraph is the main fear of working this step for me is the fear that I'm going to have to look at all the things I don't like about myself. And so it starts out by saying, wait a minute, you've got some positive qualities and we're going to look at them too.

[00:03:40] How about you, Eric? Mm

[00:03:42] Eric: I, God, I, looked back at my first copy of Blueprint for Progress, which is how I worked this step. It was early on, I would say it was, like most of us, a lot of us do the one, two, three step for a couple of years, I date everything and I found my first scribbles in the first copy of my Blueprint in like 2012. And at that time I had been beaten senseless, by the disease. I had, virtually no admirable qualities that I could recollect any longer, because I was told that I was the problem, that it was all my fault. and I believed it for the sheer panic and terror of the strength and power of this incredibly cunning and baffling disease. It had me upside down, Spencer, to where, I believed I was the problem. because I was constantly, like I said, blamed for it. So this is probably for me, the most daunting step.

[00:04:48] certainly eight and nine are tough, but this one, I mean, look at the Blueprint for Progress, there's 26 chapters, 26,

[00:04:57] Spencer: Yeah. And 90 some odd pages.

[00:05:00] Eric: yeah, it was so overwhelming,I can talk more about this as we go, but

[00:05:06] I'll just leave it at that, it was overwhelming to even consider trying to get through that book alone,I didn't.I reached out and we started a group to just go through the book together. Otherwise it would just have been a, an absolute, merciless task to just, continue to, bludgeon myself because that's what I was feeling every day from my alcoholic, if that kind of makes any sense.

[00:05:32] Spencer: Oh, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. let's move forward in the reading. You want to read, paragraph two?

[00:05:38] Eric: Step four is an inventory, a list of characteristics, thought and behavior patterns, relationships, and events that make us who we are today. We wouldn't hesitate to take inventory if we owned a toy store. It would be essential to know that we had too many dolls, not enough Frisbees, or just the right number of board games. Such information would allow us to make adjustments and bring our business into balance.

[00:06:04] Spencer: Okay, so here is the neutral statement of inventory, right? That it's not an ass kicking exercise. It's an honest look at what we've got and what we have too much of and what we don't have enough of. Like the toy store.and that's cute. That's somewhat encouraging, but at the same time, moral inventory. Still very scary. Still very scary. we wouldn't hesitate to take inventory if we owned a toy store.

[00:06:39] Eric: Did you see that I put in Courage to Change 2/24.

[00:06:43] Spencer: Yes, I did.

[00:06:44] Eric: It's precisely the Toy Store story. It's February 24th, in Courage to Change. Isn't it exasperating to go to the grocery for an item, only to find the shelf empty?. Fortunately, grocers can correct the situation by taking inventory to learn which shelves need replenishment. The same is true for me.

[00:07:04] A fourth step inventory illuminates my own empty spaces, my shortcomings. This doesn't have to be a painful or scary experience. I don't have to pass judgment on an empty shelf, but unless I take the time to become aware of it. I won't do anything to fill it, and the problem will continue.

[00:07:20] By taking inventory, my empty spots can be filled with help of the remaining steps. I experienced the healing power of these steps whenever the formerly hurtful circumstances recur or the pain I once felt does not.

[00:07:35] Spencer: Yeah.

[00:07:35] Eric: It's about relationships and behavior patterns. That's what it really is. And it's who am I? and what do I like about myself?

[00:07:43] Is it, as they say, a good place to start because most of us came in so battered and,deprived of any complimentary,relationship with our alcoholic that we didn't see much that, was worth keeping. But to me, it's a matter of shedding those rocks from our rucksack that we no longer need to carry, lightening our load and deciding which are important enough and we want to work on.

[00:08:09] yeah, in the opposite order.

[00:08:11] Spencer: The first time I worked step four, I did it from the book Paths to Recovery instead of that daunting blueprint. The questions for Working Step 4 in that book are separated into three sections. The first one says, in preparing to take an inventory, so it's questions about, Do I understand what an inventory is about? What does searching and fearless mean, etc.

[00:08:35] And then, we continue by examining our assets. There are 23 questions relating to things we might feel positive about ourselves. Then, we continue by examining our liabilities, and I like the term liabilities here as opposed to defects.

[00:08:55] Eric: yeah,

[00:08:56] Spencer:

[00:08:56] There's 18 questions about things that we might not like about ourselves or might feel are shortcomings or whatever.

[00:09:04] I don't know if I would have successfully completed Step 4 the first time if I had started with the blueprint, which the first question, as far as I recall, in the blueprint says, how was I honest or dishonest as a child?what? Wait, don't want to go there.

[00:09:22] Eric: Yeah, searching and fearless for that.

[00:09:26] Spencer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:27] Eric: book is just, wow. It was just daunting is the word that

[00:09:33] comes to mind. You know, I've been through the fourth step four times, maybe more, and now I'm doing it with two sponsees, and it is daunting, which we didn't realize when we, all of us, staring at each other at the small meeting. On a Wednesday in Stanford, Connecticut said, there's no way we're getting through this step without help.

[00:09:55] and maybe let's start a meeting. So two or three of us said, let's start this meeting and call it Fourth Step Blueprint for Progress. Each chapter is so deep, that we decided we would do one character trait a week, take an hour and a quarter, which is an odd amount of time, and then we would repeat that chapter the next week.

[00:10:14] So we'd see what we answered to the questions in each chapter, there's a lot of questions, and then repeat it and see what we wrote the prior week, and then we'd move on to the next character

[00:10:25] trait. Well, do the math. 26 chapters every other week. How long does it take?

[00:10:32] It takes a year. Precisely one year.

[00:10:36] Spencer: first meeting in January every year, you go back to the beginning of the

[00:10:39] book, huh?

[00:10:40] Eric: we just, every week the meeting happens on Friday and wherever you are at that point you can jump in. As opposed to the steps, I don't think the character traits are in

[00:10:49] order for

[00:10:50] Spencer: No, they don't need to be.

[00:10:52] Eric: You can jump straight to trust or guilt or out of control. It doesn't matter. Start anywhere. And it just repeats in a year.

[00:10:59] It goes back and starts over.

[00:11:01] So anybody can come to the Friday noon meeting at the fish church and, the lot do that meeting now is 2025 going strong and it's a hybrid. and yeah,it's really been strong for a lot of people because man, I could not do this alone. I could never have gotten through this step alone.

[00:11:21] Spencer: What's the meeting called?

[00:11:23] Eric: Fourth step Blueprint for Progress meeting. It's in person and hybrid. And it started with two or three of us and, went, dark during COVID and now it's back 2025 every week.

[00:11:35] Spencer: there it is. Blueprint for Progress AFG.

[00:11:38] I could put a link to the listing on the al anon. org site. Might work. Figure out some way to put a link anyway, for people who are interested.

[00:11:50] Eric: For me, it's even more than just doing this step with a sponsor.

[00:11:56] It's so much more powerful and helpful to have a room full of people,

[00:12:00] five, six, seven, 10 shares about self esteem, right there in the first paragraph of how Al Anon works. Self esteem has just been just battered and abused.

[00:12:10] Everything, it's relationships, shame, guilt, finances, sex, intimacy, love. Wow.

[00:12:18] Spencer: Yes.

[00:12:20] Eric: It can be overwhelming. So,I'd suggest not do it alone. Do it with a group.

[00:12:26] Spencer: I will say having done the inventory with a group several times, and definitely doing it that way the first time was really, I think, kept me coming back, kept me on track more than just. Yeah, I have a commitment. I have an obligation to show up. But hearing other people share the same thoughts or different ones and recognizing, and I've said this many times, but recognizing that I am not a uniquely broken person.

[00:13:00] That there are other people who are broken if we want to use that word, and maybe we don't, in exactly the same ways. Also getting different insights into

[00:13:11] those questions. I'm going to go on to the next paragraph here because this builds on that one.

[00:13:17] A personal inventory does the same thing. So remember we were talking about the toy store, the grocery store, right?

[00:13:23] personal inventory does the same thing. It helps us to take stock of ourselves. This step makes it possible to learn about ourselves, our strengths and weaknesses, our unconscious habits and unrecognized talents, unspoken shame, secret delights, and hidden passions. The key to Step 4 is that it be taken fearlessly, free from judgment. It makes no more sense to berate ourselves for being short on patience than it does to berate ourselves because teddy bears are in short supply in our toy store. By looking at and accepting ourselves as we truly are, we can make decisions about who we choose to become.

[00:14:03] Okay, so I got a toy store. If I run short on teddy bears, I'm going to be blaming myself for not noticing we were running short on teddy bears, even if there was a huge run on teddy bears. Yesterday. Clearly my fault. Okay. there's a, character defect or whatever. Yeah.so fearless, this paragraph brings in this concept of fearless, fearlessly free from judgment.

[00:14:33] I remember when I started doing the blueprint for progress, not the first time I was doing step four. But I started doing the blueprint and I got to the first chapter about honesty and it asked about being honest as a child and I had to list some things that I was dishonest about as a child and then immediately my brain jumped way ahead to making amends. How would I make amends for these lies that I told? And I called my sponsor and said, what, what do I do? And he said, right now you're just making a list.

[00:15:10] Eric: Yeah.

[00:15:10] Spencer: Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't get ahead of yourself. You're just making a list. I was like, Oh, okay. I'll try to remember that.

[00:15:20] What do you hear in this paragraph?

[00:15:22] Eric: The word berate just comes to mind because, I've said it probably three times already in this episode. I was so berated. My alcoholic had a PhD in creating anxiety and provoking loss of temper. I felt just absolutely drained by being berated. and,I didn't know. I didn't really know, making decisions, for instance. We did a whole episode called making decision making because I was so twisted up that,I didn't know. Up from down. In from out, strength from weakness, because it was all,a mosh pit, of circus acts, like in my dream the other night. before I sat down and did the work, and this step is work, there's no question about it, this step is a lot of work.to know thyself is really the, boil it down, know thyself.

[00:16:17] and the dream that I shared, as you put it, my stream of consciousness, was, I put in my head that we're gonna do the episode, and all of a sudden my head starts filling up with ideas, and one of them came to me at three in the morning. Which was, what was it like? we talk about what was it like, what happened and what it's like now. what it was like was an absolute sideshow of freaks and ghoulish figures and monkeys and circus acts. And, and I was somewhere on a staircase with you actually, and you went up out the door and put the microphone as we were recording outside and you heard these Cacophony of, screaming animals and flamethrowers and fire eaters, cymbals crashing and marching bands.

[00:17:03] That was what my head was like, before I sat down and did the work to figure out what I wanted to keep and what I could shed,

[00:17:11] if that makes any sense, I never grew up with this disease. So I. I had a lot of confidence and it was just shaken to pieces by the disease. I just got knocked completely off my pins. I didn't know if I needed teddy bears or lemonade. I didn't even know where I was going.

[00:17:33] Spencer: Yeah.

[00:17:34] Eric: it was just absolute chaos in my head. And this step as hard as it was and as long as it took helped me to sift through it. Okay. If there's a way to maybe put it in perspective, sift through the traits, that I want to keep and, emphasize and continue to grow.

[00:17:54] And the ones I can just drop. I can drop the control. I can drop the blame. I can drop the shame. I can drop the guilt. These no longer serve me.

[00:18:03] Spencer: I saw that you highlighted make decisions in the last sentence, by looking at and accepting ourselves as we truly are, we can make decisions about who we choose to become, and I think that connects directly to what you were just saying,what do I keep, what do I throw away, and you reference back to episode 354 that we did on making decisions.

[00:18:26] Eric: What that episode was about, what I called you was, the enemies of serenity in decision and hurry.

[00:18:33] And if you recall, I was looking up indecision. There's no references to indecision in our readers,

[00:18:38] but there's lots Of references to the solution,

[00:18:41] which is decision making.

[00:18:42] So paragraph four, is that me?

[00:18:45] Spencer: Yep.

[00:18:45] Eric: It is often suggested that we begin our inventory by concentrating exclusively on our character assets, our positive traits. Most of us are accustomed to finding fault with ourselves and we overlook or neglect the fact that we really are terrific caring people at heart. That's why it's an imperative to take the time to search out and identify all that is commendable about ourselves. By acknowledging our strengths, we can use them as the basis for the new life we are creating for ourselves. And once we have acknowledged our positive attributes, laudable characteristics, and special talents, we can better maintain some objectivity as we delve into the not so desirable areas of our behavior and attitudes.

[00:19:31] Wow, that's a paragraph, huh?

[00:19:33] Spencer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:36] One of the things that I see here is a real contrast with the suggested way of taking fourth step inventory in the AA program, where it really is about shortcomings. You start by listing your resentments, and then you list your fears, and then There's the so called sex inventory, which is really about relationships. In each of those you're looking for,where you were at fault. In the Al Anon inventory, our literature says, you know what?

[00:20:11] We need to spend some time looking at things we like about ourselves by acknowledging our strengths. You know, when I did this for the first time, I did it with a group. There were eight of us that were meeting regularly. It wasn't an Al Anon meeting, so we had closed the group once the membership was settled, who was going to be there, who was going to commit to come every week, so that we could develop trust with each other.

[00:20:36] I found it almost as hard, or maybe harder, to cop to my strengths and my assets as it was to admit my weaknesses and my faults. Isn't that interesting?

[00:20:50] Eric: I've never actually looked at the step this way. I just went through the book. I just went by character trait. And in each one of the character traits, it talks about the positive and the negative side of each

[00:21:02] one of them. But what's really interesting, I didn't really know until you just told me, is it's done quite differently in AA. And now when you explained it to me, it makes total sense, that they would look at, their shortcomings, or damage that they have done versus us, which, we're the ones with the car, completely, totaled trying to get home. and we had nothing to do with it.

[00:21:29] We weren't even driving. I, I'm not sure what the metaphor is, but I just was like I continue to say, I was so beaten up, that I really, it does make total sense that our program looks at trying to restore some of that self esteem that had been just, bludgeoned, away from us. And it makes sense that they would look at the opposite approach. Can you repeat the way they do it again?

[00:21:54] Spencer: In the, the AA Big Book, and I'm paraphrasing significantly here, summarizing, They suggest this approach where first you write down all of the people and situations about which you have resentments.

[00:22:08] Eric: whoa

[00:22:09] Spencer: And then you go back, and for each of those you write down why or what happened that caused this resentment to develop. if you're resentful at a person, what did the person do that, gave you that? and then you go back, again, to each of them and ask, What part of me was affected. And there's four or five, I don't have them, was it my self esteem? Was it my financial status? There's four or five sort of categories there to choose from.

[00:22:45] what was affected and you can definitely check off more than one. The fourth column is sometimes labeled, What was my part?I've heard different interpretations of that, because what was my part implies, what did I do to, make this happen, or what did I, what were my faults?

[00:23:05] I've heard other people say,just, what? Actions did I do? Or what feelings did I have or whatever that were involved here. And that gets particularly important when it's something that happened to you as a child. Like,you're generally not at fault for things that happened as a child, butthere may be something that you did that maybe why you're holding onto the resentment. and then you can look at, And I'm not getting this quite right, but you can look at things like, what's the underlying character trait,am I self centered? Am I fearful? That again, contributed there. And then those actually go into step five, because those become sort of the list of your shortcomings.

[00:23:47] So I might list a whole bunch of things where I was impatient. Okay. Okay, the underlying trait then is impatience, right? It's not that, I snapped at my co worker for not getting something done on time or for taking too long to explain something, both of which have happened. It's that I'm impatient.

[00:24:09] And so when I get into step five, it helps in that respect. I just finished going through the blueprint with a sponsee and then the question is, okay, now what do I do with all this stuff I wrote down, And I said, what I'd like you to do is to go back and try to identify.

[00:24:25] character traits in yourself that fed into these various things that you wrote down so that we can get a short list of things that you then take forward to step six. But anyway, that's getting way ahead of ourselves here.

[00:24:39] Eric: Is this something that I just made up that in AA, resentments are some kind of precursor to relapse?

[00:24:45] Spencer: I've heard that. I don't know know if it exactly says that in the book, but I've definitely heard that listening to AA speakers, that definitely not clearing resentments, can make it more likely to relapse .

[00:24:58] Eric: It seems like I've heard

[00:24:59] it somewhere and somehow I just wrote it in my own words. But,

[00:25:04] we've heard expectations are premeditated resentments and what are resentments? Maybe they're a premeditated relapse.

[00:25:11] Spencer: I will just say that in me, If I have resentments that I'm carrying, I'm much more likely to have an Al Anon relapse.

[00:25:19] I'm much more likelyto snap at somebody or to act out. It's not just with alcohol.

[00:25:25] Eric: absolutely not

[00:25:27] in our case. It slips. we've made reference here so far. I've been jotting down to four episodes. You and I have done a lot. Patience and tolerance perspective and Al Anon slips all referenced in what we've just been talking about. Expectations, another one.

[00:25:42] Spencer: Okay. I'm going to move, move on here with the reading.Steps 1, 2, and 3 lay the groundwork for this step. Without the spiritual basis formed in the first three steps, a searching moral inventory can quickly become a weapon of self abuse. If we are not ready to use this step fearlessly, we may still be confused about the purpose of taking inventory, and probably have unfinished business with the previous three steps.

[00:26:08] I was talking to somebody about when you're going up a flight of steps, if you're having trouble with a step, it might be actually a problem with the step before.

[00:26:17] Maybe your foot's not firmly planted on the previous step.

[00:26:20] Without recognizing that I have a loving higher power and without putting myself into the care of that loving higher power, it's a lot harder to look at myself fearlessly. And searchingly if that's a word.

[00:26:34] Eric: I don't think it is.

[00:26:37] Spencer: In a searching fashion. Yeah. Searchingly. I like searchingly.

[00:26:42] What does this say to you? Do you see needing that foundation in the previous steps to really be able to do step four effectively?

[00:26:49] Eric: Absolutely. And,I have two sponsees that have been on 1 2 3 like I was for years. And many people never get past one, two, three. I've known guys in the men's group that, I've known for 10 years. They just one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. The endless waltz.

[00:27:08] I broke through it and just decided I'm ready. I just decided I'm, I'm turning it over. I came to believe I'm going to move on. Cause I want to continue to grow. Talk about making decisions. I just decided I'm going to move on, and my higher power said, okay, let's go.

[00:27:28] Paragraph six.

[00:27:29] All of these steps, including the fourth, are means of positive change. They are not intended to create guilt or diminish an already damaged self image. To the contrary, they allow us to observe ourselves as we are. See through our illusions, take care of unresolved issues from the past, make conscious choices here and now, and recognize where to turn for strength, support, and guidance. The steps are here for our growth and betterment. Each one, in turn, has something important to offer, and each plays a crucial role in restoring us to physical, emotional, and spiritual wholeness.

[00:28:10] Yeah,

[00:28:12] Spencer: Spiritual wholeness. Yeah.

[00:28:13] Yeah, I don't even know. There's really nothing I need to even comment. betterment. That's a word. That's a word. I'm looking at the first sentence in this paragraph, and particularly the last four words, a means of positive change.

[00:28:30] Eric: I don't know that that I thought of it that way when I started into this step, certainly. All of these steps are means of positive change. It's like I said in the step three episode with Mary, why was I making that decision in step three? I was making that decision in step three, because I wanted to find a way to live a life of serenity and wholeness. I don't think I said it exactly that way.

[00:28:57] Spencer: And so definitely there was some recognition there. I didn't have that clarity of thought back then. What I saw was, here are other people that are living lives that are happier, more serene, more sure of themselves, loving themselves more. And they said they got there by working this program.

[00:29:18] And so I'm gonna make a decision to do that. And darn it, the next thing is this inventory. I found a sentence in the AA Big Book that I was looking for when we were talking about this previous step about Steps 1, 2, and 3. This is in the AA Big Book after the description of working Step 3.

[00:29:41] It says, Though our decision, and by decision they mean this decision to turn our will and our lives over the care of our higher power. Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face and be rid of the things in ourselves which had been blocking us.

[00:30:03] Eric: Yeah. step four.

[00:30:05] Spencer: which is step four.

[00:30:06] I've heard speakers emphasize this sentence, like, straight from step three into step four. Don't go,yeah, I'll do it someday when I get around to it. The book says do it now.

[00:30:20] Eric: mine was virtually the same day. I just made a decision. I'm moving on. And the next day I bought the book and started.

[00:30:27] it was that direct and definitive a line after one, two, threeing for years, I want to say two or three years, I just made a decision. And as I put into the notes here, nothing changes if nothing changes .

[00:30:44] Spencer: absolutely. Nothing changes. Did we do an episode called that?

[00:30:48] Oh my, wow, you remember these things a lot better than I do.

[00:30:52] Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, most of them, I, I made up, that's why I

[00:30:56] Spencer: Ah, yes,

[00:30:57] that's often how it works, isn't it? Yes.

[00:30:59] Eric: I was struggling with the issue when I called you and said, let's do this. And it

[00:31:03] was about my daughter wanting to leave school, and

[00:31:06] transfer home had, because her mom had cancer.

[00:31:10] She had her, essay about why she wanted to transfer and she was struggling to come up with a title or a theme. And I said, how about this? Nothing changes. If nothing changes, she, Dad, that's it. And that's what she titled her essay.

[00:31:27] She didn't end up transferring, but anyway,

[00:31:30] Spencer: I'm paraphrasing the book, this step plays a crucial role in restoring us to physical, emotional, and spiritual wholeness, because if we don't know where we need restoring, we can't do it. I think that left to my own devices, I would probably have been focusing on things that didn't matter and totally ignoring the things that really mattered, the things that really would improve my life.

[00:31:58] Eric: It goes back to my circus, my dream. Monkeys throwing darts is how I would have categorized my character traits back then as monkeys throwing darts. I didn't know. I had up or down, back and front, I had no clue because I was so emotionally disheveled by the disease.

[00:32:18] Spencer: So the last paragraph in the reading from the book. It says, The fourth step should not be rushed into, but it should not be skipped either. It is too valuable a tool to ignore. Although it can be daunting to sit still and look carefully at ourselves, Step 4 can create fantastic opportunities to move our lives in a more positive direction. Until we know exactly where we are, we cannot know where we are headed.

[00:32:43] Which true. Yeah. Oh my God. Yes.

[00:32:48] Eric: The Cheshire Cat.

[00:32:50] Which path should I take? Where are you going? I don't know. then you can take either way

[00:32:55] Isn't that Alice in Wonderland?

[00:32:57] Spencer: Yeah. The Cheshire Cat.

[00:32:59] Eric: That's a perfect reference.

[00:33:01] If we don't know where we're going, it doesn't matter which road you take. Step four is about laying down a road, laying down a path of character assets that I want to improve upon and those that I no longer need. It is exactly where I meet the Cheshire Cat, is at Step 4.

[00:33:19] There's a really cool image with it, too. It's like a weird cat up in a tree, if I recall.

[00:33:24] Spencer: Okay, here we go. Alice says, Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here? That depends a good deal on where you want to get to, said the cat. I don't much care where, said Alice. Then it doesn't matter which way you go, said the cat. So long as I get somewhere, Alice added as an explanation.

[00:33:46] Oh, you're sure to do that, said the cat, if you only walk long enough. but it might not be where you want to get to, you know?

[00:33:54] Eric: I don't know why that just popped into my head, but it seems very appropriate for this episode.

[00:34:01] I drove around in circles for years with this disease taking, control of my life. And I had no idea I would literally, literally, not go home. I'd drive for hours around in circles, around miles and miles to avoid going home to see what chaos was going to ensue. Anyway, I digress.did we wrap the whole chapter here?

[00:34:23] Spencer: we have read that, we have read that whole section.

[00:34:26] Eric: Wow, okay, that's a lot.

[00:34:28] Spencer: there's a lot, and there's a lot more that could be said about Step 4, but I think, we've shared a little bit about our own personal experience. I will say,I've mentioned the first time I did Step 4, I did it with a group, and I'm gonna Pull out my step workbook here. We started step four in November of one year. And we finished it in April of the next year. Mid November to mid April, is that five months?

[00:35:02] We were doing Paths to Recovery, which has close to 50 questions for Step 4.

[00:35:08] our procedure was we would write out the answer to one or more of the questions, and then we would get together and talk about what we had found about ourselves, each sharing. And then sometimes it was conversation and sometimes there wasn't. And then, the next week we'd do some more.

[00:35:28] and we were just going at whatever rate it took us to do that. Sometimes I had short answers. I'm looking at one of the questions where I wrote a whole page to answer that question. So it, it took the amount of time that it took.

[00:35:46] That was Paths to Recovery. When I did it later from Blueprint for Progress, I did not actually write dates in here. but my recollection is it took me almost a year to get through the blueprint. so although, we're diving in and doing it, we're doing it at a deliberate pace. I attended a meeting at which, once a month, we visited the Blueprint for Progress and did one or two questions, depending how many people were there and how long it took each person to, address the question. I came in the middle of that. My understanding is it took about 10 years to get through the whole book doing it that way.

[00:36:26] Eric: That sounds about right.

[00:36:28] Spencer: But that was not working step four. That was having a meeting where we focused on those questions in the Blueprint for Progress that helped us to look at ourselves. It can take a while, especially to be searching and fearless. for me, it was definitely worth it.

[00:36:50] Eric: Oh yeah.

[00:36:51] Spencer: I feel like it's almost impossible to work the recovery steps of 6, 7, 8, and 9 without it, Because that's where we're going somewhere, and if we don't know where we're going,

[00:37:04] Eric: here's my answer to the Cheshire Cat.

[00:37:06] Spencer: yeah,

[00:37:07] Eric: Okay, go ahead. You be the Cheshire Cat.

[00:37:10] Spencer: all right?

[00:37:11] Eric: Don't call me Alice, though. Don't call me Alice. You can call me Shirley.

[00:37:16] Spencer: surely, yes.you start.

[00:37:19] Eric: Oh, hi, Mr. Cat. which road should I take?

[00:37:23] Spencer: where do you wanna go?

[00:37:25] Eric: I would like to go to step five.

[00:37:28] Spencer: then you should follow the path that takes you there.

[00:37:32] Eric: The path to recovery.

[00:37:34] Spencer: Yes,

[00:37:35] Eric: to recovery. And the blueprint for progress. It's called a blueprint for a reason.

[00:37:40] I'm a builder. You need blueprints to build.

[00:37:44] The blueprint, look at the words of the two books that we use. Paths and blueprints.

[00:37:51] Spencer: yep.

[00:37:52] Eric: Intentional.

[00:37:53] Where am I going? I'm going to the next step.

[00:37:56] That's where I want to go. then,

[00:37:58] go through the path and take the steps.

[00:38:04] Spencer: And I guess you wanna build a new life, so you need a blueprint, huh?

[00:38:07] Eric: You need to look at your blueprints and follow the path and you'll get to step five.

[00:38:12] There you go. That's what

[00:38:15] Spencer: All right, I guess I'm just gonna wi summarize a little bit here. just wanna to close it out by saying I was very resistant to the idea of step 4 to the idea of doing this searching and fearless moral inventory when I came to Al-Anon through working steps one, two, and three.

[00:38:37] I became emotionally and spiritually ready to step into the inventory, even though I think I was still somewhat fearful. By the time I had finished the inventory, and again, for me, working it in a group, and you also emphasized, it was important for you to work it in a group, it was one of the most enlightening and inspiring things that I had done in my life.

[00:39:03] So don't be scared of it. But be ready. Do the preparation.

Song 1

[00:39:08] Spencer: We went back and forth a bit on songs through this episode you put out a whole list of songs and I will put at least some of those, in a playlist on Spotify and the link to the playlist will be on the website at therecovery. show slash 420. The first one here, you want to talk to us about, I can see

[00:39:28] Eric: Yeah, of course. everybody pretty much anywhere over the age of 40 knows this song. I can see clearly now the rain is gone. I can see all obstacles in my way. Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind. It's going to be a bright day.bright, sunshiny day.I've been playing this one on my guitar since I can remember.

[00:39:49] Probably six, I don't know what year this came out. Maybe you can shmoogle that as we're talking.I can make it now. The pain is gone. All the bad feelings disappeared. Look, there's a rainbow I've been praying for. It's going to be a bright, sunshiny day. It's a beautiful song. certainly every day is not a rainbow and, unicorns and. Butterflies, but there's a lot more potential and hope, for more of those days when I work my program.

[00:40:18] Spencer: Came out in 1972.

[00:40:20] Eric: Yeah. So I was 12. I started playing. I was playing guitar and singing at 14. So that's about exactly right.

[00:40:32] Spencer: Especially coming right after our discussion about which path should I take.

[00:40:36] I can see clearly now. I can see all obstacles in my way. I'm no longer blind.

[00:40:43] Eric: because I took the time. I took the time to look. Look at the obstacles. That's what the fourth step is all about.

Our Lives in Recovery

[00:40:50] Spencer: Now we get to talk about anything but Step 4.

[00:41:01] Eric: Yeah.

[00:41:01] Spencer: In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery. How have we experienced recovery

[00:41:07] recently? Should we flip a coin to see who goes first?

[00:41:10] Eric: I'll go first.

[00:41:11] I had someone request that we try to make these episodes a little bit shorter and I keep thinking, oh, that'll be easy. It's just, I don't know about you, when I start my shares and they say, how much time would you need? I usually say, I don't know, 10 minutes or stop me at Tuesday. And that seems like what you and I end up doing. We could go on, but I'll quickly just say my day today has been consumed with public outreach. I took, the summer quote off, which wasn't really off because I continue to get email requests for, events. My term as the area public outreach coordinator for Connecticut ends in December. Sigh of deep breath all at once, please. God, it's been daunting. this position, because we've put so much effort into it, there are 15 of us that meet every month, first Wednesday, we have 15 events probably coming up in the next 3 months. daunting as step 4. with hundreds of people involved in moving stuff and gear and, tablecloths and our, all of our, giveaways to different events and getting people to step up as a lead. We now have a whole separate subcommittee for Alateen public outreach. We have two or three, AA events with Al Anon participation, the area convention, AA. Area 11, which is the state, which is hundreds of people. We have four or five events that have hundreds and hundreds of people coming up, as well as presentations to the UConn School of Social Work again. Which will be our fourth, presentation to another recovery center, with three speakers from my public outreach team.

[00:42:53] So yeah, my life in recovery for this last few months has been, a little slower than usual, but all of a sudden coming back, I've been referred to a bull in a china shop, but now I have slippers on.

[00:43:05] So busy is my short answer to what's my life is like for right now in recovery.

[00:43:13] Spencer: My wife reminded me this morning that tomorrow is her 19th AA birthday,

[00:43:20] and that she would like us to celebrate it by going out to dinner,

[00:43:24] The timing is particularly important because Wednesday she's flying down to Texas to visit her sister. So we can't really put it off a day.

[00:43:32] I was like, but I have this retreat thing for one of the teams that I'm a member of at church.

[00:43:39] Actually, it's two teams getting together to meet each other again and talk about what we're going to be doing for the year. she said,

[00:43:48] Eric: Nope.

[00:43:49] Spencer: Can you not go? Do you have to go? And I was like, I should really should. There we go.

[00:43:56] Eric: Please don't be a schmuck. I'm going to be, are you crazy?

[00:44:01] Spencer: and that's where we left it. Cause went off to work and we left it kind of like, well,we'll figure something out.

[00:44:08] Eric: Have fun at dinner tomorrow night.

[00:44:10] Spencer: Yeah, so as I was sitting here preparing for the podcast, I was like, no.

[00:44:15] Eric: Yeah.

[00:44:17] Spencer: You know what my decision had to be, right?

[00:44:21] My decision is I need to go out to dinner with my wife tomorrow for

[00:44:24] her 19th AA

[00:44:25] Eric: Not even close, brother. Not even close.

[00:44:29] Spencer: So I emailed the church group and said, I have a an anniversary that's very important to my wife happening tomorrow, and I need to have dinner with her. Hopefully they will understand.

[00:44:40] If they don't. That's just what it is. Because I had to make the decision that was right I'm going to pull something else here because I was talking with an Al Anon person recently, and she was talking about how in her marriage they are using the traditions.

[00:44:56] And I'm like, okay, so this is like unity of purpose here, which is the first tradition. So I need to bring those principles in and be using them maybe a little bit more in my life. They're not just good for Al Anon, they're actually good for the rest of our life too. The other thing that I'm thinking about, because in less than two weeks from the day we're recording this, which will have already happened by the time this episode comes out, I'm the Al Anon speaker at this conference in Wisconsin and the theme of the conference is action is the magic word.

[00:45:29] And so I'm starting to think about how have I. Taken action in my program of recovery,the talk is what it was like, what happened, what it's like now, but for this one, I want to focus on taking action in recovery, spending more time about how I worked my recovery to get to where I am now and less about where I came from.

[00:45:57] That will be recorded and I will undoubtedly publish it as an episode of the podcast sometime in the fall. Although the last one I did took me almost a year to get it published, so we'll see. So there's a couple things that are going on in my life, my recovery life.

[00:46:10] Looking forward in the podcast, as opposed to looking forward in our lives, we're still going to be talking about steps.

[00:46:16] We've got what, eight more steps to go. I've had a couple people who wanted to talk about Step 4 and I said, I already have a Step 4 person, but then I've done three episodes on Step 3.

[00:46:25] So I might be able to, come back and look at Step 4 from a different angle. More steps coming up. We welcome your thoughts. You can join the conversation, leave us a voicemail, or send us an email. And Eric, how can people send us feedback?

[00:46:40] Eric: You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery. show. Or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 734 707 8795. You can also use the voicemail button on the website to join the conversation from your computer. We'd love to hear from you. Share your experience, strength, and hope Or your questions about today's topic of Step 4 or any of our upcoming topics. If you have a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us know. If you would like advance notice for some of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for the mailing list by sending an email to feedback at therecovery. show. Put email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.

[00:47:23] Spencer: And our website is therecovery. show. All the information about the show is there, which is mostly the notes for each episode, which we've got. 420 of. In the show notes, you'll find links to the books that we read from, links to at least some of the previous podcasts that Eric and I did that were mentioned in this episode, videos for the music we chose, and there you'll also find on the website, links to some other recovery podcasts and websites.

[00:47:53] We'll take a short break before diving into the mailbag.

Song 2

[00:47:57] Spencer: Our second musical selection, which is. as all of them available on the website, is I Like the Things About Me by Mavis Staples. I was not previously familiar with this song. I found it in a list of songs about, I don't know, looking at yourself or self assertion or something.

[00:48:15] And I said, Oh, this is perfect. This song is about discovering that you like yourself. Even those parts that you thought you didn't like. And a few lyrics here,

[00:48:27] I looked in the mirror and what did I see? A brand new image of the same old me. Oh, but now I wonder why should I be surprised? I like the things about me that I once despised.

[00:48:40] And just this captures what happened to me in step four. I don't know about that last line. That, that took a little longer probably, but a brand new image of the same old me. is what I had when I finished doing Step 4.

[00:48:55] Eric: like it.

[00:48:55] It's really

[00:48:56] Spencer: Yeah. And Mavis Staples, man, she can rock a song, too.

Listener feedback

[00:48:59]

[00:49:07] Spencer: Well, the mailbag has some correspondence in it. Let's see what we've got.

[00:49:11] We've got a letter from Nora who writes, Hi Spencer, really enjoyed the episode on step three and of any faith with Marilyn. I'm pretty sure I've been to that meeting and it's so great that we can adjust to our comfort level without messing too much with the traditions that keep the sanctity and unity of Al Anon intact.

[00:49:29] I also like the emphasis on the word and meaning of care in the third step. This dovetails beautifully with the concept of higher power, being able to be open to understanding and feeling the love, support, and care of this healing power.

[00:49:43] I am working on and playing with remembering that I am being held by a loving power, not unlike gravity, which kindly keeps me on earth, not flying to an imminent death in a hostile atmosphere. And when I remember that I have been protected from harm and healed when I did get hurt, I reinforce my trust in the universe and I foster my faith and forget for the moment my fear. Thanks for all you do, Nora. thank you, Nora. Thank you for writing.

[00:50:07] Nancy asks, please state the four P's why amends are not accepted.I don't recall a four P's about amends. Maybe somebody out there can help me with this. but what I do understand is that. I don't need my amends to be accepted. I just need to make them to the best of my ability.

[00:50:32] I underlined these sentences in Paths to Recovery, page 91 in the Step 9 chapter. We may or may not experience a positive response. If we have any expectations of the response to amends, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. So I try to remember that when I'm making amends. It's for me, and the other person may or may not be happy about it, may or may not accept them.

[00:51:01] Ted wrote, Good morning, Spencer. You have impeccable timing for this. Secular Healing, working step 3 with Marilyn.

[00:51:08] I know you sent out a notice on Sunday to let us know you were dropping episode 419. Honestly, I didn't look at the name or subject because I just looked forward to your new episodes and was waiting for my morning walk, which I didn't get the last couple of days because of working from home.

[00:51:23] I have been working the Steps slowly but surely for a couple of years now and have been stuck between 7 and 8 for a while. Monday, I was on a meeting Eric B. shared of on the podcast. The October 21st Daily Reader felt like someone was talking to my sponsor. I felt compared to share about my being stuck, mainly due to the lack of God or higher power that I can define.

[00:51:46] One of the things that comes to mind is a statement made by my sponsor a while ago after speaking about meditation. I actually started meditation before I had ever known or thought of Al Anon. He said, I think you were one of the most spiritual people I know.

[00:52:01] It's shocking for someone stuck and almost in tears as I type this on a train on the way to work. Monday night I met with my sponsee. Amazing how much this helps me. They have many reasons for an issue they are dealing with, and I related a story of how I got my job of now 40 years, and my progression to now being considered a subject matter expert, something I have never thought of myself as.

[00:52:23] As I was telling them, I was almost in tears as I thought of that as a higher power that guided me to this employer. I had been laid off five months before getting the job. My first child was born one week after I was unemployed. I've also shared all of this and more with my sponsor and fellows. I can only strive to be as gracious and kind as many friends I have found in program.

[00:52:45] It is one of the many reasons I keep coming back. I have found the Any Faith or None meetings and will try to join them when I can. I love your dedication to the podcast and program. Thank you so much for your service. You help so many of us in dealing with these diseases. Gratefully, Ted G.

[00:53:03] I don't think I have anything to add there, Ted.

[00:53:06] Thanks for writing.

[00:53:08] Diane asked, I think I remember an episode you talked about your drinking, how you dealt with or struggled with your own drinking or not. Thanks. That was episode number 112. It was a while ago. Titled, Do You Drink? It's at therecovery. show slash 112.

[00:53:28] I got a voice memo from Allyson,

[00:53:30] Allyson: hi Spencer, my name's Allyson. I'm a grateful member of Al Anon and ACA from Pennsylvania. I've only been a member of these groups for probably six months now, but the growth I've received has been amazing. Just wanted to thank you for your show. I just found it a month or two ago and started listening from the beginning.

[00:53:54] And then I decided, that I was curious as to what was going on with the show, so I listened to the retirement episode. I think it was 4 18, and I had resisted because I was like, this is not applicable to me. I'm 31. I have four boys. Oh, just kidding. Three boys and a husband, and I stay home mostly.

[00:54:14] But I found it to be so good and so applicable, and I was so grateful that you had shared that. So I'm a veterinarian and about a year and a half ago, I shut my, large animal ambulatory practice down. I shut it down, because I was pregnant and I have difficult pregnancies and I also felt that I was being called, by my higher power to stop practicing and stay home. That was really, really hard for me. I felt called to it, but,

[00:54:54] The guest you had in the retirement show talked about how she had experienced grief, and was surprised at what her retirement looked like. And I could resonate with that. So now in recovery, I am figuring out what I actually want.

[00:55:16] I'm not figuring out based on what I think I should do for my kids, or what my parents want me to do, or what my husband wants me to do, or what I think the community wants me to do, or what I owe to my clients. I'm figuring out what I want. And I just started practicing, one day a week at a local mixed animal practice.

[00:55:36] So I'm going to be doing small and large animal medicine. I'm really excited. I had my first day last week and it was great. I loved it so much. I miss the people. I miss working with colleagues. And I can still be a good mom and do that. I've been working on the idea of good enough. I am enough for one, but then two, even after I make a mistake, I apologize for it, and then I have to tell myself that I am a good enough parent.

[00:56:09] And I don't have to be perfect. So that's all stuff I'm learning, through recovery. I'm so grateful. I just wanted to share that with you guys and anybody else that's going through a transition, I think in their work life balance or anything related to work could really benefit from that retirement episode.

[00:56:28] So thank you again and take care. Bye.

[00:56:32] Spencer: thank you, Allyson.

[00:56:33] Sometimes, we really don't know what we need to hear until we hear it, do we? Sounds like your journey of self discovery is just beginning. I hope it's a wonderful one. Got a review on Apple Podcasts from Beth. Titled such a soul nourishing podcast. I find this podcast to be chicken soup for my soul. I love listening to these episodes. A fellow Al Anon member told me about this show for which I am very grateful. This podcast has taught me so much and has done much to supplement my personal recovery.

[00:57:06] I don't have active drinking in my life, and yet I get so much from listening to this show. The host, Spencer, is amazing. He's a wonderful role model. I hope one day to emulate his calm demeanor. Thank you, Spencer, for bringing us this beautiful show that teaches me how to live my best, most thoughtful life.

[00:57:24] Beth,

[00:57:25] Thank you, Beth, for that. Wow. amazing. if you say so, that calmness was not always there. That calm demeanor was not always there. That came directly from working and continuing to work my program of recovery. Thanks for leaving that review.

[00:57:45] Eric, I want to thank you again for joining me today, for joining me again, for this conversation about Step 4. We've had so many conversations over the years, and this is another one that I think we put some meat on it.

[00:58:00] Eric: I loved it. I really, surprisingly, as opposed to what I sent you, in that ridiculously long word document, I didn't really give it any more thought after I hit the send button, so we didn't spend much time on it. I had scrabble points for every one of the words, searching, moral, fearless, inventory. I think the most scrabble points, by the way, was inventory at 21.

[00:58:24] Spencer: I saw those numbers and I was like, what is that about?

[00:58:27] Eric: Scrabble points. That's exactly what they were.

[00:58:29]

[00:58:30] Spencer: I forgot about Scrabble points.

[00:58:32] Eric: yeah. Now, inventory had 21, searching had 15, fearless 11. Why this matters is ridiculous to me , I don't know.

[00:58:40] Sometimes I just think about stuff until they make some sense.

[00:58:43] It was fun. I got a lot out of it today. and thank you once again for all that you do and the action step that you are taking to do these episodes is incredibly commendable. and I know that the hundreds and thousands of people that, your show has helped, our show has helped, with everybody who participates is immeasurable as we see in some of the feedback. Maybe you can put the picture up at this episode. Spencer and I have finally met for anyone that doesn't know, after what, 10 years of doing this together, we met for the first time like two months ago in Connecticut and we took a funny picture.

[00:59:23] Yeah.

[00:59:24] It's really good.

[00:59:25] Spencer: Where are we here?

Song 3

[00:59:26] Spencer: Oh, last song. I chose this one. It Ain't Me Babe by Bob Dylan. And again, you can listen to it at TheRecovery. Show slash 420. As I see it, this is a song of being honest about who I am not.

[00:59:41] There's some lyrics here that speak to that for me. You say you're looking for someone who's never weak but always strong, to protect you and defend you whether you are right or wrong. Someone to open each and every door. But it ain't me, babe. No, no, no. It ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for.

[01:00:02] How many times was I not willing, or maybe not knowing, that somebody was asking something of me that was not mine? That was not me? One of the outcomes of really getting to know myself through Step 4 and the rest of the program is being able to say, you know what? That ain't me. That ain't me. There are things that I'm good for.

[01:00:27] There are things I can do, but This one? No. Eric says we had an episode. Take it or leave it.

[01:00:34] Eric: It popped into my head. I thought I'd share it.

[01:00:36] Spencer: Indeed. All right.

[01:00:39] Eric: All right, my friend.

[01:00:40]

Closing

[01:00:40] Spencer: Thank you for listening, and please keep coming back. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. If we did not talk about a problem you are facing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.

[01:00:59] May understanding, love, and peace grow in you one day at a time.